Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post Reply
User avatar
MoodyBlue
Administrator
Posts: 3918
Joined: Oct 10th, '06, 21:24
Location: Romsey Victoria
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by MoodyBlue » Aug 9th, '20, 20:35

The attachment is lifted from an email from MTYC.

The drawings start at page 16

Looks like the females running the show have made up their mind regardless of submissions from affected parties.

It even looks like they are making it very hard for yachts to rig as the drawing seems to show a large loss of the preparation/rigging area.
Attachments
St Kilda Marina New Long Term Lease Update PackFinal(2).pdf
(1.99 MiB) Downloaded 37 times
"There is no perfect boat. There are only those shaded to your preferences.":-)

User avatar
bachus
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3816
Joined: Jan 24th, '13, 20:43
Location: Bayside, Melbourne
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by bachus » Aug 9th, '20, 20:49

Well said yachts will be blocking a lot of roads then.
Jim
Castle 650 #96. Mystic.
Towing with Ford Territory SZII TX AWD

User avatar
colect149
Yachtmaster
Posts: 2936
Joined: Oct 28th, '06, 23:55
Location: Somerville Victoria
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by colect149 » Aug 10th, '20, 10:50

What a wonderful new look it will have for the general public sure will have it all very nice. Funny how they are so concious of the look and those people in that eyesore Edgewater Towers which will be there forever will have an even better view. As the for trailer boat fraternity (even Stinkies) we can all go to hell. It could get congested even when there was a straight run from the entance to the ramp jetty, now with the fingers to be sited on the other side it will be murder. The simple truth is they have designed the whole thing to discourage trailable boats of any kind. And you can see why, they don't want their precious "public" inconvenienced by cars and trailers moving around.
Boatless. Kia Sportage 2L FWD, Jayco 13 Sprite, 1967 MGB roadster, 1932 Austin 7 Box Saloon,
Previous:- TS500, Ultimate 18, Cole 23, Laser, Ultimate16, Farr6000, Hardy 18 Motor Sailor, Farr7500, Farr5000.

User avatar
zebedee
Admiral
Posts: 11262
Joined: May 9th, '07, 01:05
Location: Bayside Melbourne
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 250 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by zebedee » Aug 10th, '20, 14:39

colect149 wrote:
Aug 10th, '20, 10:50
... that eyesore Edgewater Towers ...
I've been inside Edgewater tower once in my taxi driving days in the late 1980s; it struck me as run down, scruffy and not much better than the housing commission towers at Williamstown which I've also been in. Fundamentally, no matter how nicely renovated, they're small units in a 60 year old tower.

One of my father's colleagues seriously considered buying a flat in Edgewater Tower when it was first built, but decided to keep his humble abode in St Vincent Place in Albert park instead...

Flats in Edgewater tower go for well under a million dollars now;
Humble abodes in St Vincent Place go for around four to six million and up...
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

User avatar
Wanton
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3358
Joined: Nov 28th, '06, 08:36
Location: Sunbury Vic
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by Wanton » Aug 27th, '20, 21:14

The Development criteria included the following statement, "Public boat ramp: Provision and maintenance of a public boat ramp and trailer parking."

A scan of the plans seems to incorporate a Car parking area, although I am not sure if this is trailer and car parking provision and also a boatramp on the right hand side of the drawing. Although there appears to be no description of the facility at all. Every other area and building has a description, but the boat launching ramp and the car parking areas do not have a description.

It seems pretty clear the the MTYC will lose its storage area for their boats. This is pretty harsh to expel the MTYC from the premises. Is the City Council proposing a new home for the club? May be worth asking the question.

At least they dropped the idea of having a bridge going across the entrance to the marina.
Ed
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

User avatar
Wanton
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3358
Joined: Nov 28th, '06, 08:36
Location: Sunbury Vic
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by Wanton » Aug 27th, '20, 21:24

MoodyBlue wrote:
Aug 9th, '20, 20:35
The attachment is lifted from an email from MTYC.

The drawings start at page 16

Looks like the females running the show have made up their mind regardless of submissions from affected parties.

It even looks like they are making it very hard for yachts to rig as the drawing seems to show a large loss of the preparation/rigging area.
I suppose as long as there are no overhead wires going across any access road over the car park and the boat ramp, it may be OK to launch. I do not think I would attempt a single handed launch or retrieve at that boatramp. No pontoon on one side and possibilty of hard wall of the walkway promenade on the other side. I have only launched once at St Kilda and the experience was very unforgettable, ie never again. The plans really do not do anything to change my mind about the "never again."
Ed
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

User avatar
bachus
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3816
Joined: Jan 24th, '13, 20:43
Location: Bayside, Melbourne
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by bachus » Nov 29th, '20, 14:55

I am about to try an experiment that bypasses the above. Although I have storage space at home I have booked the last hard stand spot at Wyndham harbour. 50 minutes drive from home. Martha cove a similar option distance wise but a public ramp and Wyndham harbour has a private ramp. Will report on conditions.
Wyndham harbour hard stand report here.
Last edited by zebedee on Dec 14th, '20, 21:23, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Wyndham harbour content split to new topic at Jim's request.
Jim
Castle 650 #96. Mystic.
Towing with Ford Territory SZII TX AWD

User avatar
Wanton
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3358
Joined: Nov 28th, '06, 08:36
Location: Sunbury Vic
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by Wanton » Dec 22nd, '20, 10:16

AS 3962:2020 - Standards Australia

TSP'ers will remember that about 3 years ago, Inma, Zebedee and myself made representations to Hobsons Bay Council and the State Government about the redevelopment of the Warmies Boat Ramp in Newport. The original proposal would have made that boat ramp hostile and dangerous for Trailer Sailing boats. To the credit of the authorities once we made our written and in person representations the plans were quickly amended and the result is an excellent result for TS users of the Warmies Boat Ramp. After that result, we followed up with a formal submission to Standards Australia to have the standards for the design of Boat Ramps and Marinas to ensure their safe use by owners of trailable yachts such as ours.

I am now in receipt of correspondence from Standards Australia. (see PDF file attached)
Standards Aust.pdf
(67.68 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
I have not yet seen the new Standards and have requested a copy of the standards, given that our group had made a significant contribution to their drafting. What is important is that we all now begin requesting the St Kilda Council and the State Government to ensure that the St Kilda Marina redevelopment plans are in accordance to the new standards. There is no legal requirement for the standards to be applied, but it needs to be a brave council and state government that ignores the Australian standards. I am of course assuming that the new standards actually reflect our submission.

The St Kilda marina in its present redevelopment format will be hostile to its use by trailable yachts. Such developments have a life of at least 60 years. This is crown land. We all have a right to enter it and subject to the appropriate fees, to safely use it.

If I can get a copy at little personal cost I will get it. But I am almost sure that there are TSP'ers here that may have easy no cost access to the standards.
Ed
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

User avatar
Wanton
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3358
Joined: Nov 28th, '06, 08:36
Location: Sunbury Vic
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by Wanton » Dec 22nd, '20, 10:31

Yikes, I just found out the cost of a PDF copy of the standard is $179. This is actually beyond the capacity of this little tacker. I have asked for a free copy, given our contribution, lets hope they agree that to be fair enough. Cannot really go any further without a copy of the standard.
Ed
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

User avatar
Wanton
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3358
Joined: Nov 28th, '06, 08:36
Location: Sunbury Vic
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by Wanton » Dec 22nd, '20, 13:49

This morning I have shot away emails to the City of Port Phillip and also the Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning (DELWP) . The following is what I asked the DELWP:

I refer to the redevelopment of the St Kilda Marina and wish to express concern that the Boat Launching ramp that is proposed does not enable Non powered boats such as trailer sailers to be safely launched and retrieved at the marina. Can you please tell me if the proposed design complies with AS 3962:2020 - Standards Australia. The marina as proposed will be hostile and unsafe to be used by trailerable sailing boats for the life of the marina, perhaps as long as 60 years. If the marina plans do not conform to AS 3962:2020 can you please explain the reason for this?
Thank you in anticipation Edwin Flynn

My email to Port Phillip Council is a follows:


I refer to the St Kilda Marina Project and am concerned that the Launching facilities at the marina may not be safely usable by non power boats such as Trailerable Yachts. Can you please confirm that the marina is designed to conform with Australian Standard AS 3962:2020. If it does not can you please inform me the reason for not complying with these standards.


If you too are concerned that facilities should be designed with the safety of all boat users not just power boats please feel free to write to both DELWP and the Port Phillip Council. You can use your email to do this or just leave a comment on their relevant website with a clear reference that you are speaking about the St Kilda Marina redevelopment. As the late INMA, Zebedee and I found out, it is not too late to make contact and bring about change.
Ed
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

User avatar
Wanton
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3358
Joined: Nov 28th, '06, 08:36
Location: Sunbury Vic
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by Wanton » Feb 2nd, '21, 19:47

Today I received an email from Port Phillip Council in response to my email shown in my last post. Port Phillip Council is allowing the redevelopment of the marina with the design complying with about the redevelopment of the St. Kilda Marina in compliance with AS 3962-2001 - Guidelines for design of marinas. This is despite the fact that a new standard for design of Marinas was adopted in 2020. That standard is AS3962-2020. So the council is allowing the new marina that has a life of approximately 50 years or more with standards that are 19 years out of date.

I do not use the St.Kilda Marina but I know that the Melbourne Trailable Yacht Club and other TS users do use this facility. I do not know what the new standards provide in respect to pontoons and access to the launching facility by non power boats such as ours. Below is a copy of my latest email to the Port Phillip Council. I implore those of you who are more directly effected by the design of this marina to please make your thought known to the Council and also DELWP. The baton is now handed over to those who are more directly effected by this redevelopment.

Below is a copy of my email that I sent today.:

Thank you for the update. The Australian standards for Marina designs were updated in 2020. They are now the new standards and in my opinion the new St Kilda marina should be designed in accordance with the new standards having regard that the life of the new marina is perhaps 50 years or more.. The marina design that I have seen, as it is now, is totally inaccessible to safely launch trailerable yachts, as there is no pontoon at the launch ramp.

Regards
Edwin Flynn
Commodore and secretary
Bayside Trailable Yacht Club
Ed
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

User avatar
Wanton
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3358
Joined: Nov 28th, '06, 08:36
Location: Sunbury Vic
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by Wanton » Feb 8th, '21, 09:29

This is not over yet and I encourage everyone with an interest in TS sailing in Victoria to write to both DEWLP and the Port Phillip Council to ask why the Proposed redevelopment of the StKilda Marina is not being done to meet AS3962-2020. Below is an email that I have received from Jasmine J Collard (DELWP). In my email to DEWLP I asked to be informed if the Minister, Hon Lisa Neville, is aware that the redeveloped marina will be based on outdated AS Standards AS3962-2001, ie. 19 years out of date. This marina is located on Crown Land. It will have a life of perhaps 50 years or more, and it appears that the design will be hostile to Trailer Sailor owners.

If you have not done so yet, and you are impacted by the proposed design, please write. The email to use is at the end of this post.

Morning Edwin,

Thank-you for your email regarding concerns over the design standards for the St Kilda Marina Boat Ramp redevelopment. I have asked Joanne McNeill, Executive Manager Property and Assets from Port Phillip City Council to contact you. Joanna has been the led on this project for the past 4 years and will be able to answer any questions or concerns you have over the development. As this is only in a design phases DELWP is not involved with the redevelopment, once the design is completed, we will then issue consents and approvals.

Thank-you Edwin, have a lovely day
Jasmine

Jasmine Collard | Land and Built Environment, Program Officer | Port Phillip Region
Forest, Fire & Regions | Department of Environment, Land, Water & Planning
609 Burwood Highway, Knoxfield, Victoria 3180
M: | E: jasmine.collard@delwp.vic.gov.au


OFFICIAL
From: commodore.btyc@gmail.com <commodore.btyc@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 2 February 2021 8:59 PM
To: Jasmine J Collard (DELWP) <jasmine.collard@delwp.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: OFFICIAL: St Kilda Marina- Boat Ramp
Last edited by Wanton on Feb 9th, '21, 07:47, edited 1 time in total.
Ed
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

User avatar
Wanton
Yachtmaster
Posts: 3358
Joined: Nov 28th, '06, 08:36
Location: Sunbury Vic
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Proposed St Kilda marina redevelopment

Post by Wanton » Feb 8th, '21, 18:38

I received the following email from Port Phillip Council today. It looks like the new marina will indeed be designed to comply with the latest Australian Standards. I have not actually seen AS 3962-2020 because Standards Australia has not sent me a copy despite the fact that we had made a substantial submission to have the standards reviewed. However if the marina is being designed according to the latest standard then that is a victory for common sense. Hopefully it will be possible to launch Trailerable Yachts safely from the new St Kilda Marina.

Latest email below.:


Dear Edwin,
Further to your e-mail below, we respond as follows. Also, as the committee of management for this site we have been asked by the Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning (DELWP) to follow up on your correspondence to them; we hope the response below addresses your issue.
Apologies for citing the previous standard developed in 2001 in our e-mail to you on 2 February 2021. We are aware of the updated version, AS 3962-2020 - Guidelines for design of marinas. The new tenant is required and has committed to design the Marina, as part of the redevelopment, to comply with AS 3962-2020. This includes the provision of boat ramp and launch functionality to meet best practice outcomes as identified in this Standard for safe water, vessel and vehicle access.
The detailed planning for the transition to site commenced late last year and has ramped up with the execution of the new lease by both parties following State Government approval of the new lease on 1 December 2020. The planning includes, amongst various requirements to ensure a smooth transition to the new lease on 1 May 2022 and the subsequent commencement of a redevelopment, the establishment of a community engagement program and the detailed design development for the site (currently we are at concept design level).
Aside from the requirement for the new tenant to develop the design to comply with relevant current Australian Standards including AS 3962-2020, there will be an opportunity for Marina users and the wider community to provide feedback on elements of the design most likely in mid-2021. While the St Kilda Marina Site Brief has set the design parameters for the site and informed the new planning scheme, the feedback will be considered by the tenant and designers and inform the detailed design. The areas for feedback are currently being determined; however, they will cover the various facets of the site from marina elements to public open space and community uses to complementary tenancy options.
We will be in touch closer to the time of engagement to ensure your club has the opportunity to have your say.
If you have any further questions about this, please feel free to contact the Project Manager, Michelle Rysanek on 0418 xxx xxx.


Michelle
Rysanek

Senior Property Project Manager | Property and Assets



St Kilda Town Hall | 99a Carlisle Street, St Kilda, Victoria 3182




Edit: I removed the telephone numbers for their privacy.
Ed
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

Post Reply

Return to “VICTORIAN Ramp and Location Reviews”