CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Things of Interest to Castle Yacht owners
huwp
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by huwp » Aug 2nd, '11, 09:16

I agree with Paul, pre feeder is a godsend with the bolt rope. On the NX I have gone for slugs which I lock into the track for shorthanded sailing makes up and down much easier, and I drop straight onto the boom.
For loose footed main, you dont 'need' to have a slug on the clew, get a length of either velcro strapping or webbing which you can put around the boom, and then shackle to the outhaul and sail. Holds the sail down. Same methond we use on a 45' just up spec the strap. You can even use some spectra (a handy repair)
Also I still have the new Doyle dacron #3 if anyone is interested, drop me a line.
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Pipalini
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Pipalini » Aug 29th, '11, 16:43

My 2nd use of the new main on Saturday. :)

The most blatant difference is the stiffness of the sail cloth! With the Yachtworks main we were struggling to get any leech tension in winds above about 10kts - We havn't changed any of the control systems yet, but find that we are not constantly trying to control the stiffer sail.

I have only used it in winds 13-22kts so not sure if it sends the boat as well as the last sail in light winds... time will tell.

It is a fairly flat sail - The design brief was for an easily controlled and de-powerable sail - I think that is what we have got. Now the reality will set in... we still need to learn how to sail in more than 6kts :P

No photos yet... we were kind of rushing on Saturday... and we still missed the start by 6minutes :oops:
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Paul124AC » Aug 29th, '11, 16:57

Pippalini wrote:... With the Yachtworks main we were struggling to get any leech tension in winds above about 10kts...
That is the biggest difference I've noticed so far, I had an original and a Horizon dacron, now a Horizon mylar/carbon and the latter is just so much more controllable. I've seen 22kts constant, 30 gusts with a full main and apart from trav dumping I haven't been tempted to reef. I reefed recently in 15kts but I was solo and didn't wanna spill me beer. Like you Pip I haven't raced with it yet but the numbers are good, first race this w/e against 2 other Castles so we'll see. That's a whole week for me to come up with excuses why we bombed. :)
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by huwp » Aug 29th, '11, 18:58

The real key with the newer fabrics is that they do exactly what they are supposed to do, and when you pull on the control lines, instead of stretching the sail, they actually tension the sail as you want.

In breeze, you do want to open the upper leech to de power the leech of the sail as well as tighten the cunningham to flatten the front of the main (combined with the bent middle of the mast) partly what the backstay does (as well as straighten your forstay) and fine up the headsail entry.

If you get any flutter in the lower mid tell tail pull on the outhaul.
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Pipalini » Aug 29th, '11, 19:12

Agreed Huw. I know all the theory... putting it in practice will take time. I am still trying to get the rig on my Cat right... I have the sail the way I want it... now I just have to get the mast right! It's all good fun!
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Luffy » Sep 8th, '20, 15:16

Wondering if anyone has procured a new mast for a Castle 650 recently. Any advice on who could make one up or what kind of section to use? The original masts used an 80mm round section with the bespoke (fibreglass - not carbon - yes I know it's black) taper. Is anyone using a teardrop shaped section? The class rules say the mast section must be original dimensions as minimum, but don't say it has to be round.

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Pipalini » Sep 8th, '20, 15:31

Hi Luffy - I'm not sure how the dimensions could be the same but it be a different shape :P

My understanding of the castle mast evolution is that is it has gone:
Tapered aluminium mast
Aluminium bottom section with fibreglass top
Aluminium bottom section with carbon fibre top (note not advanced construction methodology, hand laid carbon)

The carbon fibre top section was actually done to save money when the price of goldspar masts became prohibitively expensive.

What state are you in? There are probably a few good leads in Vic that I can think of.

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by zebedee » Sep 8th, '20, 15:56

Luffy wrote:
Sep 8th, '20, 15:16
Wondering if anyone has procured a new mast for a Castle 650 recently. Any advice on who could make one up or what kind of section to use? The original masts used an 80mm round section with the bespoke (fibreglass - not carbon - yes I know it's black) taper. Is anyone using a teardrop shaped section? The class rules say the mast section must be original dimensions as minimum, but don't say it has to be round.
Roller Coaster, #10, doesn't have a circular mast.
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Castle 610 » Sep 8th, '20, 16:28

Luffy are you looking for a new complete mast or have you broken yours?
I always thought the alum section would break before the composite section so it would be relatively easy to replace the alum section.
Stephen
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Luffy » Sep 8th, '20, 18:12

Thanks for those quick replies.

My current mast is all aluminium, round section with a tapered section on the top. I broke the top metre or so off in a collision of masts with another Castle, in pre-race manoeuvring on a breezy day. I got it repaired with a sleeve, but the mast is now a bit shorter and the shape is not consistent, with a bit of a kick where the join is when under load. The mast has also been sleeved at the bottom where it had failed around the holes where the halyards exit. So I'm looking to replace the whole thing, it's just not working well.

My current mast was a replacement for one I broke several years ago. It was a spare that another Castle sailor here had on hand. I had looked around for a new mast at that time, and had found it challenging.

I'm in Canberra. There is another Castle here that has recently snapped its mast driving under trees on the way back from the ramp. So if I can find a good supplier, there may be a couple of masts in it. Although I think their taper is OK, so they might end up just getting a straight section and re-using the taper.

On the question of dimensions, I can imagine that a non-circular section could possibly meet the class rule by either having: 1- equal or greater area in a cross-section, or 2- being at least 80mm across the narrowest dimension. The class rule doesn't say which. Zebedee, do you know the dimensions of your mast section? Did you get that made yourself?

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by zebedee » Sep 8th, '20, 23:17

Unfortunately my mast is currently vertical, otherwise I'd photograph the bottom to show the shape.
But fortunately it's at home, so I can pop out, breach curfew by about 6 feet, and measure it for you.

I bought the boat from Stephen, "Castle 610", 2 posts up.
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by zebedee » Sep 9th, '20, 00:34

OK, my apparently original mast section on Castle 650 #10 is 74mm wide and 110mm long with a 25mm deep sail track, as measured with my $5 plastic vernier (or as we engineers call it, a "near").
According to the Keeley website, KOD is 75mm x 111.13mm with a sail track which is not specified, but which appears to be about 20mm deep.


Image

However when I google for <mast section KOD> I turn up just one other relevant site:
SUNBIRD 25
Rules and Restrictions
...
Mast: The mast section shall be KOD (110 X 70 mm). Comalco mast section No E5406 may be used as an alternative.
So the Sunbird association agree with my measurements.
Google turns up no other mention of Comalco E5406.
So I'm guessing that my mast is the Comalco E5406 section and that the KOD is the only equivalent available today.

Image

My mast is (slightly) tapered by slitting the front face, compressing to close the gap and welding.
Newer Castles generally seem to have circular masts with the sail track riveted on, and the fibreglass or carbon top sections must surely be lighter than my lamppost. I know Jim has his in his front yard, so hopefully he'll be along with details in the morning. I'd treat mine as a data point, not a design target!
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Luffy » Sep 9th, '20, 08:06

Lamppost would be fine, even a flagpole, if Goldspar would sell me one.

Thanks for that Zebedee. So that's a 110 x 70 -ish section. That is, the width is less than 80mm. Would you be able to take a photo of the mast step as well (no hurry) ? Was that the mast that was supplied by Yachtworks, or a later replacement? The rule states:

5. Mast and Rigging
a. The minimum mast section shall be those dimensions used by YachtWorks.
b. The mast materials are unrestricted.

If Yachtworks was using that section, it should meet the specification. With Sailing Australia's surprise announcement last week that they are disbanding the trailable yachts and sportsboat committee, and bringing in a new CBH based on measurements only, I can anticipate some more competitive folk might have a mind to challenge non-standard rigs. There's already talk around our club of having a "measurement day" to check everyone's compliance.

I'm leaning towards getting an elliptical/teardrop shaped section, but I want to make sure it's going to be legal. I was talking with the guy (Karl?) at Keeley Marine the other day. He has both round and teardrop sections available and can cut a taper into either. It didn't seem like he'd made a mast for a Castle before, though, so I was wondering if anyone had gotten a mast made elsewhere since Yachtworks left the field.

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Castle 610 » Sep 9th, '20, 08:58

Mine is the round section with fibreglass top section. Its a lot light than the mast on rollercoaster to the point l don't (yet) need a mast raising system and can raise it solo.
Diameter is 80mm. I would recommend this design but can see the challenge is getting hold of the fibreglass top section. Btw this is not just the tip. The fibreglass section starts below the hounds so maybe 3m long.

Ps. Canberra sounds like a tough gig on Castle masts!
Stephen
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Luffy » Sep 9th, '20, 10:49

There are a dozen or so Castles here in Canberra, and most of them have the original 80mm round section with the fibreglass taper. A couple have aluminium tapers, but no one has an elliptical section. One of the other boats had its (standard) mast off the other day and I took measurements. I was surprised how light it was, actually. So yes, if I could get a fibreglass (or carbon) taper, that would be perfect.
20200904_120729.jpg

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Pipalini » Sep 9th, '20, 11:21

Thinking out loud - If you go from round mast to elliptical then there is a high likelihood this will have totally different bend characteristics and not suit your sail as well.

I know Yachtworks were making the composite top sections themselves... not much help to anybody now.
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by rseydler » Sep 9th, '20, 11:50

Are Goldspa doing a Kodak?

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by bachus » Sep 9th, '20, 15:27

Confirming my Castle has a 80mm round section with riveted on slug/bolt rope track and a spun alloy tapered tip.
IMG_2265.jpeg
IMG_2264.jpeg
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by zebedee » Sep 9th, '20, 16:14

Luffy wrote:
Sep 9th, '20, 08:06
Lamppost would be fine, even a flagpole, if Goldspar would sell me one.

Thanks for that Zebedee. So that's a 110 x 70 -ish section. That is, the width is less than 80mm. Would you be able to take a photo of the mast step as well (no hurry) ? Was that the mast that was supplied by Yachtworks, or a later replacement?
110 x 74. Even with a plastic vernier there's no real "ish" about those numbers.
While the boat is at least 36 years old (appears in the results for the 1984 Marlay Point race), there's no reason to believe the mast is not original. KOD was a common section at the time and I've seen other early Castles with similar masts.
Luffy wrote:
Sep 9th, '20, 08:06
The rule states:

5. Mast and Rigging
a. The minimum mast section shall be those dimensions used by YachtWorks.
b. The mast materials are unrestricted.
Yachtworks made numerous changes to the Castle design over ~25 years and ~150 boats.
Luffy wrote:
Sep 9th, '20, 08:06
I'm leaning towards getting an elliptical/teardrop shaped section, but I want to make sure it's going to be legal. I was talking with the guy (Karl?) at Keeley Marine the other day. He has both round and teardrop sections available and can cut a taper into either. It didn't seem like he'd made a mast for a Castle before, though, so I was wondering if anyone had gotten a mast made elsewhere since Yachtworks left the field.
Yachtworks still exists; the 650 moulds are still in the yard, but we're all locked down at the moment. Try contacting him when Melbourne re-opens.
Karl Mueller at Keeley took over the business from Bob Keeley in early 2016. There's probably not been very many broken Castle masts in that time; I would certainly approach him, and Yachtworks, if looking for a new mast. And I'd get one of the newer design lighter circular masts like most Castles have.
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by bachus » Sep 9th, '20, 16:54

Pipalini wrote:
Sep 9th, '20, 11:21
Thinking out loud - If you go from round mast to elliptical then there is a high likelihood this will have totally different bend characteristics and not suit your sail as well.

I know Yachtworks were making the composite top sections themselves... not much help to anybody now.
+1

Circular I think. You should have pre-bend and when the backstay gets cranked on hard - even more mast bend. Elliptical will resist that. You will not have as much sail shape control.

Update. The mast bend under backstay control even tensions the forestay - another potential downside of elliptical.
Jim
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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by Luffy » Sep 9th, '20, 19:53

Thanks everyone. I'm persuaded on the round section. I'll follow up with Keeley, although he's caught up in the lockdown right now. I didn't have any joy with yachtworks when I was looking for a mast previously. But no harm in seeing if he's changed his mind, I guess.

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Re: CASTLE MAST & RIGGING

Post by zebedee » Sep 15th, '20, 03:20

Another place to try:

South East Yacht Services Pty Ltd
Factory 3/11 Bell Grove Braeside VIC 3195 Tel: 03 9580 0394

Mast & rigging custom fabrications, manufacter of Baverstock spars
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

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