Introduction

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davewilliams

Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 19th, '12, 22:53

Greetings

I'm Dave, from Port Kennedy WA

I've been reading this forum for a while and thought it time I joined and introduced myself

I've been looking for a boat for a little while, having done some sailing in the early 90's and enjoyed it alot.

I've been waiting for the right time to buy a boat and start enjoying some peaceful time on the water again.

so initially I set myself a $10-15k budget and set out looking for a trailer sailer...We looked at one and on the way out of the yard, We saw someone launching a new Macgregor 26M and our eyes lit up but having read up a fair bit I've decided its not for me (obviously I'd raised my budget!!)

Another factor that appears to be limiting me is towing capacity of my vehicles, I have a 08 subaru liberty which has a 1200kg towing capacity and a VT commodore as a bunky which is the same without an expensive tow pack.

So any suggestions? any hints? I'm all ears and love to have a chat about stuff that I'm passionate about and I think I've come to the right place :)

Peace!
Last edited by davewilliams on Jan 19th, '12, 23:15, edited 1 time in total.

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 19th, '12, 23:02

Mods, Just spotted the intro thread, please move as required

cheers

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Re: Introduction

Post by INMA » Jan 20th, '12, 00:37

Dave, welcome.

There should be many people wanting to add some comments on what is good and what is best.

I am not sure about your location and local boats, its good if you can find a yacht similar to others in the local sailing club or well known in the area.
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Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 00:40

Thanks :)

Im finding it a little difficult to be honest, I'm told the local sailing club is not taking new members so finding someone to have a beer and a chat to is proving hard.

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Re: Introduction

Post by zebedee » Jan 20th, '12, 01:02

davewilliams wrote:so initially I set myself a $10-15k budget and set out looking for a trailer sailer...

Another factor that appears to be limiting me is towing capacity of my vehicles, I have a 08 subaru liberty which has a 1200kg towing capacity and a VT commodore as a bunky which is the same without an expensive tow pack.
From memory the VT Commodore has 3 GMH towbars (and many different aftermarket ones), at 1250kg, 1600kg and 2100kg. While the 2100kg pack and associated stuff like transmission cooler, bigger radiator, bigger brakes, etc is prohibitively expensive, the cost of a Hayman Reece or similar name brand 1600kg towbar should be minor in the scale of your overall budget, giving you a bit more wiggle room. According to the old Hayman Reece catalogue, RL1810 is a 1600kg tow bar for a VT/VX sedan for $294.

If you're genuinely stuck at 1250kg; you're looking at 18 foot boats and single axle trailers. Some of these boats are on tandems which will add too much weight and take you past 1250kg. At 1600kg you've got room for 20-22 foot boats. Whatever you get, get a weighbridge ticket before committing. If you want to know what a particular type of boat weighs, ask here, there's a good chance someone has one and knows, or could be persuaded to find out.

As for what boat to look for; what do you want to do with the boat? Cruise? Race? Daysail and sleep aboard at a jetty in town? Cook onboard? Solo/two up? Weekends away with 3 small children or 2 sullen teenagers? Fairly open water or lakes?

If you've got the cash, this is a good time for buyers.

Graham
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 01:54

hey Zebadee

I live 2 mins from the beach in a protected area

Image



I intend to cut my teeth locally before going to places like Rotto etc

*my partner and I (her no experience on water at all)
*she requires a toilet :)
* cruising, overnighting, not really interested in speed at this time, easy to sail for novice and comfort for 'er indoors is about it


I have the cash ready to go, really just need to nail down exactly what fits the bill then go from there.

there seems to be plenty available over east at reasonable prices but not much locally - which is typical :)

and thank you for your reply!

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Re: Introduction

Post by zebedee » Jan 20th, '12, 02:15

davewilliams wrote:I live 2 mins from the beach in a protected area
I intend to cut my teeth locally before going to places like Rotto etc

*my partner and I (her no experience on water at all)
*she requires a toilet :)
* cruising, overnighting, not really interested in speed at this time, easy to sail for novice and comfort for 'er indoors is about it

I have the cash ready to go, really just need to nail down exactly what fits the bill then go from there.
You sound like a candidate for something like an Ultimate 18, Investigator 563 or Careel 18; all around the 1200kg mark. Not all boats of the same model are the same weight btw, the later Careels for example are significantly heavier.
davewilliams wrote:there seems to be plenty available over east at reasonable prices but not much locally - which is typical :)
Oh it's not that simple. They're all between Sydney and Brisbane, (mostly around Newcastle for some reason) except for the Red Baron cats which are all in either Perth or Cairns.
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 02:25

zebedee wrote:
davewilliams wrote:I live 2 mins from the beach in a protected area
I intend to cut my teeth locally before going to places like Rotto etc

*my partner and I (her no experience on water at all)
*she requires a toilet :)
* cruising, overnighting, not really interested in speed at this time, easy to sail for novice and comfort for 'er indoors is about it

I have the cash ready to go, really just need to nail down exactly what fits the bill then go from there.
You sound like a candidate for something like an Ultimate 18, Investigator 563 or Careel 18; all around the 1200kg mark. Not all boats of the same model are the same weight btw, the later Careels for example are significantly heavier.
davewilliams wrote:there seems to be plenty available over east at reasonable prices but not much locally - which is typical :)
Oh it's not that simple. They're all between Sydney and Brisbane, (mostly around Newcastle for some reason) except for the Red Baron cats which are all in either Perth or Cairns.
what about something like these? weights of these babies??

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet ... Z326981013

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet ... Z347107192

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet ... Z323318674

anything positive or negative to be said for them?

how much work is involved with installing a toilet? I can be pretty handy when I need to be

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Re: Introduction

Post by nicm01 » Jan 20th, '12, 02:47

Hi Dave
get yourself down to The Cruising Yacht Club on Rockingham Beach on a saturday morning. All sorts of trailer sailers are in action on friday night twilights and saturday afternoon racing (Red Jacket, RL24, Noelex 25, M27, Windrush Wildfire, Clubman 8, MacGregor...cough, etc). Ask for Darren Kearnes ("Keg") our Rear-Commodore Sail who will hook you up for a sail. It will be worth getting out on a few boats before making a decision on what to purchase.
And if you like the Club we'd be happy to have you as a member - http://www.tcyc.com.au
Nic
Zig-Zag Gaffa - Red Jacket

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Re: Introduction

Post by zebedee » Jan 20th, '12, 02:57

davewilliams wrote:what about something like these? weights of these babies??

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet ... Z326981013
(Don't miss the links from text all through this post)

Image

That's a Careel 18.
As I understand it there are 3 main models, with the later boats getting a heavier keel, more ballast and a slightly taller cabin. Most of them are Mk Is around 1000kg on the trailer.

The class association website and forum are at http://www.careel.com/; they'll be able to tell you lots more.

Also see the Crawfords Trailer Sailer library, Careels are here.
Image

I know very little about the Court 650, but with a nominal displacement of 930kg, it's likely to be around 1400 to 1500kg with an outboard and on a trailer.
Image

I saw a (different design) Aluminium TS for sale in Melbourne last week and commented on how few of them there are about. I think I have seen a total of four, from one extremely rough and scruffy object parked in a Melbourne street, to a very fine looking timber TS at Paynesville which on closer inspection was welded together and was in fact aluminium.

It's almost certainly a one-off. It's anyone's guess what it weighs, but given it's on a tandem trailer it's likely to be up around 1600kg. It's got a fixed stub keel and may require quite a deep ramp (like a Red Jacket) for launching.

Valuing orphans like this is very hard, particularly if you're unsure whether it is the right boat for you in the long term.
davewilliams wrote:how much work is involved with installing a toilet? I can be pretty handy when I need to be
The Careel, Ultimate, Investigator and many other boats this size and larger have a dedicated spot on the centreline of the boat between the mast support post (bulkhead in the case of the Investigator) and the V berth where a porta potti will fit. Some privacy can be achieved with a curtain across the cabin at the mast support post. A suitable porta potti or similar will cost somewhere around $100 - $150.

You're looking at a much bigger boat than these before you get plumbed in heads and with modern holding tank requirements (you can't just pump overboard any more), they're a major installation.
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

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Re: Introduction

Post by zebedee » Jan 20th, '12, 03:08

davewilliams wrote:how much work is involved with installing a toilet? I can be pretty handy when I need to be
zebedee wrote:The Careel, Ultimate, Investigator and many other boats this size and larger have a dedicated spot on the centreline of the boat between the mast support post (bulkhead in the case of the Investigator) and the V berth where a porta potti will fit. Some privacy can be achieved with a curtain across the cabin at the mast support post. A suitable porta potti or similar will cost somewhere around $100 - $150.
Some photos of Careel 18 interiors:

The porta potti goes under the lift out cushion and cover in the centre of the V berth:

Image

Here's one you can see (different boat, same type):

Image
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 05:02

nicm01 wrote:Hi Dave
get yourself down to The Cruising Yacht Club on Rockingham Beach on a saturday morning. All sorts of trailer sailers are in action on friday night twilights and saturday afternoon racing (Red Jacket, RL24, Noelex 25, M27, Windrush Wildfire, Clubman 8, MacGregor...cough, etc). Ask for Darren Kearnes ("Keg") our Rear-Commodore Sail who will hook you up for a sail. It will be worth getting out on a few boats before making a decision on what to purchase.
And if you like the Club we'd be happy to have you as a member - http://www.tcyc.com.au
Nic
FANTASTIC!

I will definately take you up on that, I'm working this saturday night but my first available saturday I will be down for sure!

Magnificent news, thanks very much

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 05:06

zebedee wrote:
davewilliams wrote:what about something like these? weights of these babies??

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet ... Z326981013
(Don't miss the links from text all through this post)

Image

That's a Careel 18.
As I understand it there are 3 main models, with the later boats getting a heavier keel, more ballast and a slightly taller cabin. Most of them are Mk Is around 1000kg on the trailer.

The class association website and forum are at http://www.careel.com/; they'll be able to tell you lots more.

Also see the Crawfords Trailer Sailer library, Careels are here.
Image

I know very little about the Court 650, but with a nominal displacement of 930kg, it's likely to be around 1400 to 1500kg with an outboard and on a trailer.
Image

I saw a (different design) Aluminium TS for sale in Melbourne last week and commented on how few of them there are about. I think I have seen a total of four, from one extremely rough and scruffy object parked in a Melbourne street, to a very fine looking timber TS at Paynesville which on closer inspection was welded together and was in fact aluminium.

It's almost certainly a one-off. It's anyone's guess what it weighs, but given it's on a tandem trailer it's likely to be up around 1600kg. It's got a fixed stub keel and may require quite a deep ramp (like a Red Jacket) for launching.

Valuing orphans like this is very hard, particularly if you're unsure whether it is the right boat for you in the long term.
davewilliams wrote:how much work is involved with installing a toilet? I can be pretty handy when I need to be
The Careel, Ultimate, Investigator and many other boats this size and larger have a dedicated spot on the centreline of the boat between the mast support post (bulkhead in the case of the Investigator) and the V berth where a porta potti will fit. Some privacy can be achieved with a curtain across the cabin at the mast support post. A suitable porta potti or similar will cost somewhere around $100 - $150.

You're looking at a much bigger boat than these before you get plumbed in heads and with modern holding tank requirements (you can't just pump overboard any more), they're a major installation.
thanks for that info - Im in sponge mode at the moment, sucking all this info up!

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Re: Introduction

Post by Furstin » Jan 20th, '12, 09:03

For a light tow the Careel is a good starting boat - have a look at the association website.

If you are not going far in relatively flat geography then the 2100 tow pack on the 'dore would increase your market. So long as you drive it in 1/2/3 the tranny should be OK if you're not flogging it. (imho). You might also have club mast up storage available to you, in which case even less of an issue.

The court 650 is a local boat and as such good for your conditions (windy!). Would be nice to get something over 22ft with your budget.

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Re: Introduction

Post by linkage » Jan 20th, '12, 12:06

Hi Dave,

Welcome aboard! You sound as if you are in the same boat :roll: as I was 3 years ago. I had one shot at buying a boat which my wife would like because I knew if I got it wrong the hassle of selling and buying again would have been too much. I ended up buying a Noelex and storing it mast up at the hardstand at Point Peron and using their tractor to launch and retrieve. We eventually bought a car capable of towing but haven't been on any road trips away yet because we have been happy sailing the local waters, racing and cruising to Mandurah and Rottnest.

Warnbro Sound is lovely but you would be better off initially sailing around Mangles Bay as it is much more sheltered. A 25 knot seabreeze in Warnbro is a lot more unpleasant than around the other side. Safety Bay Yacht Club probably aren't taking anymore members because they are landlocked!

Anyway, if you want to have a look over a Noelex (be careful, you might not look at anything else!), give me a call on ohfoourohtriplefiveninesixdoubleone and we'll make arrangements. If you want to have a look at others at TCYC it's probably best to come down to the hardstand area on a Friday 4.30 to 5.00pm or Saturday after the boats come in.

Before the race is not the best time as you would expect. Are you interested in racing at all or have you done any in the past? Twilight racing is great fun and if you are a beginner, the jib and main division is the way to start.
John
Noelex 25 #1022 "Bonanza"

Ozzie

Re: Introduction

Post by Ozzie » Jan 20th, '12, 14:19

Welcome Dave.

My mate has a Court 750 which I helped him restore. Overall I am impressed with the design and build of the yacht and as you know they are a WA boat designed for local conditions. I assume the 650 would be as good only smaller.

I have an Investigator 563 which is a good simple starter boat with the stability of a real ballasted long keel. With suitable hatch locks they would I believe suite WA conditions ( which I have seen first hand) my investigator has a simple mod by the previous owner to give it an enclosed head in the front cabin which gets full marks from my all girl crew, wife and two daughters....see pic on right.

http://inv563.multiply.com/photos/album/18/Old143

If you are starting out with your wife as crew do not underestimate the value of keeping her wants included. Good stability and and female friendly plumbing are a good start. This is not being sexist just considerate, as many solo male sailers have found out.

Ian B tows his 563 comfortably with a Subaru, not sure on the weight of the Court 650.

Good luck. Check the 563 site and John Crawfords Marine

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Re: Introduction

Post by Paul124AC » Jan 20th, '12, 18:01

Hi Dave,

Court 650's are a great boat, a "mini Nolex" in layout, and have a good ballast ratio. Check out freight rates to Perth, my boss just freighted a race car to Perth on the train for $1200 so it's not too expensive. I wish I was in the market for a first boat, compared to 2 years ago you can get a bargain.
I was born with nothing. I've still got most of it.

... .- .. .-.. + ..-. .- ... - + .-.. .. ...- . + ... .-.. --- .--

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 23:13

Furstin wrote:For a light tow the Careel is a good starting boat - have a look at the association website.

If you are not going far in relatively flat geography then the 2100 tow pack on the 'dore would increase your market. So long as you drive it in 1/2/3 the tranny should be OK if you're not flogging it. (imho). You might also have club mast up storage available to you, in which case even less of an issue.

The court 650 is a local boat and as such good for your conditions (windy!). Would be nice to get something over 22ft with your budget.
cheers!

I have mast up storage at Point Peron very close to me but have no idea about cost, availability or eligibility

these are things I guess I have to find out

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 23:16

linkage wrote:Hi Dave,

Welcome aboard! You sound as if you are in the same boat :roll: as I was 3 years ago. I had one shot at buying a boat which my wife would like because I knew if I got it wrong the hassle of selling and buying again would have been too much. I ended up buying a Noelex and storing it mast up at the hardstand at Point Peron and using their tractor to launch and retrieve. We eventually bought a car capable of towing but haven't been on any road trips away yet because we have been happy sailing the local waters, racing and cruising to Mandurah and Rottnest.

Warnbro Sound is lovely but you would be better off initially sailing around Mangles Bay as it is much more sheltered. A 25 knot seabreeze in Warnbro is a lot more unpleasant than around the other side. Safety Bay Yacht Club probably aren't taking anymore members because they are landlocked!

Anyway, if you want to have a look over a Noelex (be careful, you might not look at anything else!), give me a call on ohfoourohtriplefiveninesixdoubleone and we'll make arrangements. If you want to have a look at others at TCYC it's probably best to come down to the hardstand area on a Friday 4.30 to 5.00pm or Saturday after the boats come in.

Before the race is not the best time as you would expect. Are you interested in racing at all or have you done any in the past? Twilight racing is great fun and if you are a beginner, the jib and main division is the way to start.
Cheers!! Do you need to be a member of a club to use the hardstand? how much is it PA?

I'd love to have a look at your boat, I will give you a call, thanks for your hospitality - I work shift work, Im next free sunday - when is best for you or are the times you've stated best.

I've never done any racing but am keen, this for me is as much for the social aspect as it is spending time with the missus :D

Thanks again!
Last edited by davewilliams on Jan 20th, '12, 23:26, edited 1 time in total.

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 23:21

Ozzie wrote:Welcome Dave.

My mate has a Court 750 which I helped him restore. Overall I am impressed with the design and build of the yacht and as you know they are a WA boat designed for local conditions. I assume the 650 would be as good only smaller.

I have an Investigator 563 which is a good simple starter boat with the stability of a real ballasted long keel. With suitable hatch locks they would I believe suite WA conditions ( which I have seen first hand) my investigator has a simple mod by the previous owner to give it an enclosed head in the front cabin which gets full marks from my all girl crew, wife and two daughters....see pic on right.

http://inv563.multiply.com/photos/album/18/Old143

If you are starting out with your wife as crew do not underestimate the value of keeping her wants included. Good stability and and female friendly plumbing are a good start. This is not being sexist just considerate, as many solo male sailers have found out.

Ian B tows his 563 comfortably with a Subaru, not sure on the weight of the Court 650.

Good luck. Check the 563 site and John Crawfords Marine
Hey Ozzie, yes if I have learnt one thing over the years, it's important to keep the girls happy, if that means a toilet - then thats a small price to pay!!

I'm hoping this will become a shared interest so I'm going to be careful to make sure she's comfortable!

good advice, thanks :)

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 20th, '12, 23:24

Paul124AC wrote:Hi Dave,

Court 650's are a great boat, a "mini Nolex" in layout, and have a good ballast ratio. Check out freight rates to Perth, my boss just freighted a race car to Perth on the train for $1200 so it's not too expensive. I wish I was in the market for a first boat, compared to 2 years ago you can get a bargain.
Hey

I've seen a few boats over east and thought they would be worth a flight over and freight but from buying cars I know that what glitters isn't always gold :)

Worth considering more though, thanks

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Re: Introduction

Post by brokendown » Jan 21st, '12, 11:30

Dave,
an alternative mast up storage is at Cockburn boat storage at Woodmans point,right opposite the boat ramp.Iam taking my Farr 5000 down there on Monday.Google up their website,rates are listed.

As far as interstate freight rates are concerned,I bought my Farr from an owner in NSW & freighted the yacht over on a car carrying ship ex port Kembla,cost about $1800 or so,from memory
cheers
Duncan

davewilliams

Re: Introduction

Post by davewilliams » Jan 21st, '12, 23:28

brokendown wrote:Dave,
an alternative mast up storage is at Cockburn boat storage at Woodmans point,right opposite the boat ramp.Iam taking my Farr 5000 down there on Monday.Google up their website,rates are listed.

As far as interstate freight rates are concerned,I bought my Farr from an owner in NSW & freighted the yacht over on a car carrying ship ex port Kembla,cost about $1800 or so,from memory
cheers
Duncan
Thanks Duncan

Its worth considering but for sheer ease, pt peron would be my first choice

Cheers

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Re: Introduction

Post by MelN » Jan 22nd, '12, 10:50

Hi Dave,
Just wanted to say welcome and enjoy the search. I came to this site about 2 years ago looking for the same kind of assistance and have not looked back. You're absolutely right about having found somewhere you can share your passion for sailing.
Good luck, have fun and keep us updated on your progress. :-)
Cheers,
Mel
Gippsland

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Re: Introduction

Post by linkage » Jan 23rd, '12, 12:51

Hi Dave, sorry for the delay in replying.

You do have to be a member to keep your boat at the hardstand so you would have a fair outlay just to be able to store your boat there. I have attached a copy of a member application which includes the schedule of fees.

http://www.tcyc.com.au/wp-content/uploa ... cation.pdf

Give me a call anytime to arrange a look at the Noelex. The other times I gave you are when other owners are likely to be around and you can have a look at their boats and see how easy or difficult they are to launch and retrieve etc.
John
Noelex 25 #1022 "Bonanza"

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