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 Post subject: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: Sep 23rd, '17, 10:55 
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Launching my '22 has required more effort than usual. It starts rolling back ok then requires an almighty shove about 1/3 down the trailer. I suspect one of two things: either my rollers need removing and a good regrease, or perhaps my keel rope has stretched or slipped (spectra) and the keel is sitting a little lower on the trailer rollers than usual creating extra drag.

Can anyone tell me, when you have the keel fully retracted, does your keel still make contact with the rollers or does the tip lift completely clear for example by 5mm or so?

Because that part of the trailer is submerged when launching, i can't really see whats going on at the time, and i don't want to pull the keel rope assembly apart unnecessarily.

Any ideas appreciated.
Pete

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: Sep 23rd, '17, 18:01 
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The keel on most yachts sits clear of the rollers. If its above the skeg on the trailer, it should stay clear of the rollers at launch.

Do you tilt on launch, without tilt the hull can put massive loads on the rear rollers.

Also the small diameter thimble rollers increase friction compared with the larger diameter flat rollers.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 12th, '18, 08:35 
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INMA wrote:
Do you tilt on launch, without tilt the hull can put massive loads on the rear rollers.

I tend not to tilt on launch as i've not needed to till now. I have noticed that the bolt through the rearmost roller has a slight bend in it which can't be helping, i.e. when it rotates it is noticeably off centre.

I also noticed last week when diving on the boat in clear water that with the keel fully retracted (wound "up") that the aft end of the keel still protruded approx 2 inches below the stub keel.

I have not noticed that before - have other Sabre owners seen this or should the keel be fully retracted into the stub keel?
I really don't want to disassemble the keel box to tighten the keel rope unless i really have to!

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 12th, '18, 11:03 
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Never having owned a Sabre, I am only guessing based on the TS I have owned. All of them should retract above the line of the hull slot. You may even be doing damage to the board, hinge and lifting mechanisms doing a hard shove to get the tip past a roller - don't ask me how I know :oops: In my case though, many years ago I forgot to tie off the CB and it fell between two rollers. I did the old "drive forward a bit and then reverse and hit the brakes which really did a nasty job on the whole assembly.

So my guess is that you really have to shorten your lifting line a tad. :cry:

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Last edited by Peter Yates on May 13th, '18, 08:43, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 13th, '18, 08:12 
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Yes Pete - thanks - the truth is finally dawning upon me.
Would still like to hear from other Sabre-ers if possible.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 13th, '18, 10:54 
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Last year, we witnessed a Sabre (25, I think) do the "reverse down the ramp at speed and slam on the brakes". Clearly a manoeuvre he'd done before; the crew were on the adjacent floating walkway with bow line to follow it off the trailer. While it was impressive to watch (and listen to), I couldn't help but think about the so many things that could go wrong - like your swing centreboard not being fully retracted!

We struggled with our boat until I changed all the rollers AND the spindles. Much better.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 13th, '18, 18:15 
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bunyip wrote:
Yes Pete - thanks - the truth is finally dawning upon me.
Would still like to hear from other Sabre-ers if possible.

Cheers


If you do go down the route of taking the keel-box apart, be prepared to find more problems than you thought could possibly exist in such a small space. On the up-side, you'll fix all sorts of hidden problems and, with a bit of inventiveness, you could re-assemble the keel-box to be more maintenance-freindly than the way it was constructed. If you get it fixed in a weekend, you'll get off lightly. My experiences were not on a Sabre, and they got quite, er, interesting. To find out more, start here theboattinkerer.blogspot.com.au

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 13th, '18, 19:08 
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Probably a silly question but if the spectra has stretched it would be minimal and wouldn’t it just mean an extra wind on the winch.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 13th, '18, 19:44 
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I think the sabres came in a couple of configuration, one being a worm drive with cable. I assume that this would need to have a couple of turns 'in the bag' to compensate for stretch.


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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 13th, '18, 23:08 
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With the boat on the trailer, when I have a look tomorrow I expect to find some slack in the spectra ropes due to slippage or stretch. Then I guess I'll undo the ropes, place a couple of turns on the screw to allow for stretch/ bedding down, and retighten the ropes . I'll see if I can take some pics.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 13th, '18, 23:15 
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Tezza wrote:
Probably a silly question but if the spectra has stretched it would be minimal and wouldn’t it just mean an extra wind on the winch.

The spectra may have slipped over time and the car which travels along the screw to which the spectra is tied, has reached its endpoint before fully retracting the keel.

This is all speculation til I pull it apart tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 13th, '18, 23:35 
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Yep!

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 15th, '18, 08:13 
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OK here's what i found.
The mechanism for retrieving the keel is a 90 turn screw along which a car with horns travels as you turn the crank. To the horns is tied (anchor bend) the two ends of a piece of 8mm spectra having passed through a block and back underneath to the keel.
Attachment:
keel winder.jpg
keel winder.jpg [ 106.36 KiB | Viewed 1111 times ]

Any slack in this spectra would mean the keel would not fully retract.
In the fully wound up position i found that the keel still lays on the trailer rollers AND the spectra is tight but could be tighter. I imagine that under full load, the spectra would be rock hard and near impossible to flex with my fingers. So there is definitely room for improvement there.
To check this theory, i placed a jack under the keel and was able to easily raise it up slightly off the rollers, proving that it is possible to fully retract the keel into the stub keel and off the rollers.
Ideally the adjustment would be perfect such that the keel load on the trailer would be perfectly shared between the rollers and the spectra. Hence the need to back the lift mechanism off when trailering and spare the spectra.
The method of tightening would be to back the horns off a turn or two, re-tie the spectra, allowing room for take up of the knot before reaching the screw's endpoint. I guess its possible to overdo this and place too much strain on the whole system, so some experimenting to share the load would be needed.

I also noticed that the aftmost trailer roller bolt is bent, thus the roller rotates off-centre which must provide some resistance to launching. I also ordered 3 new rollers as they were a little damaged (torn/pitted) and not providing full support.

Hence my plan is to fix the rollers first, then see if that makes a difference...THEN adjust the spectra if necessary.
I also spoke to the previous owner who suggested using the tilt option when launching which i have not tried (only tilt when retrieving).

Lastly i noticed the trailer suspension u-bolts need replacing... my new number one priority!
Will let you know how launching goes next time.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 15th, '18, 08:41 
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While friggin' with the trailer, i addressed the issue of wobbly wobblers. The rearmost wobblers were free to turn through a full 90 degrees thus the potential for dragging on the road or scrapping along the hull on retrieval. I sourced some truck radiator hose which fits nicely over the wobbler hinges, thus resisting the free rotation but still allowing rotation as necessary to meet the form of the hull.
See pics attached.
Attachment:
radiator sleeve.jpg
radiator sleeve.jpg [ 112.48 KiB | Viewed 1106 times ]

Attachment:
wobblers.jpg
wobblers.jpg [ 107.61 KiB | Viewed 1106 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 15th, '18, 19:15 
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Maybe think of swapping the spectra for dyneema while you have it apart. There is less stretch and it is way stronger.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 16th, '18, 00:02 
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Spectra and Dyneema are effectivly the same thing...basically different names for uhmwpe ...thats my understanding anyway . There are differences but relatively minor?

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 17th, '18, 22:27 
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the "car" that travels along the screw rod some times can has a "lock nut" that the car comes up to and rests against when the keel is all the way up, the lock nut is designed to allow you to tension it.

question .. when you wound it all the way down does the rope become excessively slack [if so that's a good indication that the rope is to long] it is not set up correctly.

again just my observations form others I have look at.

the 25' had that arraignment but most of us have moved away from it because of the number of turns.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 07:28 
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Sailaway - thanks for the message. Sadly no adjusting lock nut found. I will have to wait till next time in the water to test the fully down scenario re rope slack.

Thanks for the idea.
At this stage, i'm hoping that trailer maintenance (rollers etc) will be the difference which makes launching easier again. If not will proceed down the keel rope adjustment path.

In your experience, would this be best done by taking a few winds on the screw, adjusting the rope, then hoping the knots tighten before the car reaches the end of the screw? Probably take a few goes at it.
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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 13:29 
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Put some marks on the rope before you start.

Also, drop keel on the trailer rollers once on the trailer to release the load on the rope. The rope will stretch under constant load.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 20:20 
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danger danger

be careful when winding the keel up, if you wind it to high into the keel case the top part of the keel [opposet end to the bottom] which is rounded. if the keel pivot pin/bolt is not exactly in the centre [as ours isn't] it can come into contact with the front of the inside of the keel case and crack it

[ mmmmmmm not sure if that explains it very well]

guess what im saying is only have so it winds up to just above the bottom of the keel case and enough to clear the NEW rollers. hence the adjustable lock nut.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 25th, '18, 10:45 
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bunyip wrote:
Lastly i noticed the trailer suspension u-bolts need replacing... my new number one priority!

Where there is doubt, there IS no doubt...
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Before...
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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: May 25th, '18, 10:48 
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After...
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This job was made easy by virtue of the fact that the trailer is a tandem so working on one axle at a time means the other axle supports a large portion of the weight.

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: Jun 9th, '18, 10:21 
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Decided to try and replace my front axle disk hubs as they're a little rusty.
The trailer was built in 1984 by Sabre Yachts in Clontarf, Briz.
But i am having trouble locating replacements mainly due to the length between the disk face and the mounting face (where the rim bolts to).
Have any sabre owners tried to replace the same disk hubs, and know where to get them?
Please see pic below. Appears to be Girlock branded.
Attachment:
20180529_155730b.jpg
20180529_155730b.jpg [ 107.54 KiB | Viewed 661 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: Jun 9th, '18, 11:02 
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Bunyip,
Google "Beehive Trailer Hubs" or Velox trailer hubs

They were originally devised for use with 10" alloy wheels.

Used with normal steel rims the caliper is out in the breeze ie not hidden in the rim.
Our Felk trailer has them and I think apart from increased unsprung weight they are good allowing the brakes to be air cooled

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 Post subject: Re: launching a sabre 22
PostPosted: Jun 9th, '18, 11:49 
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https://www.probar.net.au/dischub-ht-lm-beehive

The site shows two sizes but the link to the SL hub does not work.

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