It is currently Sep 23rd, '17, 00:55

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '17, 12:37 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
I have purchased a Sonata 6 to sail single out of Jacobs Well (pick up in two weeks).
It has never had any instruments installed. The last time I owned a boat mobiles were bricks and there was no such thing as a lap top let alone iPad so I started looking at hard wire instruments. After scrolling through this site I realise that is a silly way to go and there are better ,cheaper and more informative alternatives.
My base requirements are for depth sounder and speed log. I can navigate with paper chart, bearing compass, sextant etc. when necessary but realise it's about time I went electronic and any way I would probably take to long to establish where I was.
I have a spare iPad ,wifi I could leave on boat but have no idea how I would keep it charged let alone what I should be downloading it with and what auxiliary equipment I should get to upload base data I do not want to go crazy with the $$$. I am computerliterate and would have little trouble using ( I think). She does have solar to battery.
Very much appreciate being pointed in the right direction


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '17, 13:30 
Offline
Able Skipper

Joined: Jan 24th, '13, 20:43
Posts: 1145
Location: Bayside, Melbourne
Has thanked: 21 times
Have thanks: 81 times
First issue is that a wifi only iPad has no true gps function. You need a 3G or 4g capable unit for standalone use as a plotter.
The wifi can however be used to connect with an NMEA plotter via an NMEA to wifi bridge. There was a thread on this recently that provided some plotter software options.
Charging can be done using a car type USB to cigarette lighter device. You will probably need a longer than normal USB cable. Try to avoid this. Better to bring the 12volt socket closer to the iPad position as the wire gauge in the typical el cheep longer USB cable will have high losses unless you get a cable with 24 gauge charging wires.

_________________
Jim
Castle 650 #96. Mystic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '17, 14:25 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
OK thanks, My wifi is a Telstra 4G and I could use my older iPad that has gps. by updating the softwear version to current.
. Please don't get me wrong ,I read that however for example does NMNA stand for New Mexico nurses association or north midlands netball association ? I type in to google and I get everything but what you are referring to.is what your referring to Navionics!


Last edited by Tezza on Sep 9th, '17, 14:49, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '17, 14:37 
Offline
Admiral
User avatar

Joined: May 9th, '07, 02:05
Posts: 9204
Images: 1
Location: Bayside Melbourne
Has thanked: 224 times
Have thanks: 883 times
4G is a mobile telephone and data service available over much of populated Australia from several providers.
Wifi is a short range network to connect with a nearby wifi router such as you might have in an ADSL modem.

_________________
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '17, 14:41 
Offline
Able Skipper

Joined: Jan 24th, '13, 20:43
Posts: 1145
Location: Bayside, Melbourne
Has thanked: 21 times
Have thanks: 81 times
Iphone was too hard to search and add links.

This is the recent thread I referred to: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=14855&p=177729&hilit=wifi+nmea#p177729

But if the iPad is Cellular capable then such technology is not required - it has built in GPS. All you need is platter software for the iPAd.

Yes Navionics is one option. Free version or the paid subscription that gives more detailed sonar charts and map updates. You might also consider getting a sonar device that links into the iPad version of Navionics - "sonarphone" - instead of a standalone sounder. You can search this forum using iPad Navigation as the keywords - this will bring up other options for the iPad.

But maybe too many eggs in the one basket having all in the one device.

http://www.navionics.com.au/2-uncategor ... ish-finder

But whatever sounder you get - the transducer might fire through the hull if you can find a suitable location. Again many threads on this topic on this forum.

_________________
Jim
Castle 650 #96. Mystic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '17, 14:58 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
zebedee wrote:
4G is a mobile telephone and data service available over much of populated Australia from several providers.
Wifi is a short range network to connect with a nearby wifi router such as you might have in an ADSL modem.

Now your confusing me . My 4G capable wifi is a mobile unit I use instead of adsl and gives me wifi access anywhere.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '17, 15:04 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
bachus wrote:
Iphone was too hard to search and add links.

This is the recent thread I referred to: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=14855&p=177729&hilit=wifi+nmea#p177729

But if the iPad is Cellular capable then such technology is not required - it has built in GPS. All you need is platter software for the iPAd.

Yes Navionics is one option. Free version or the paid subscription that gives more detailesonar charts and map updates. You might also consider getting a sonar device that links into the iPad version of Navionics - "sonarphone" - instead of a standalone sounder. You can search this forum using iPad Navigation as the keywords - this will bring up other options for the iPad.

But maybe too many eggs in the one basket having all in the one device.

http://www.navionics.com.au/2-uncategor ... ish-finder



But whatever sounder you get - the transducer might fire through the hull if you can find a suitable location. Again many threads on this topic on this forum.


Yes you are right I need to read up more. Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 10th, '17, 00:30 
Offline
Admiral
User avatar

Joined: May 9th, '07, 02:05
Posts: 9204
Images: 1
Location: Bayside Melbourne
Has thanked: 224 times
Have thanks: 883 times
zebedee wrote:
4G is a mobile telephone and data service available over much of populated Australia from several providers.
Wifi is a short range network to connect with a nearby wifi router such as you might have in an ADSL modem.

Tezza wrote:
Now your confusing me . My 4G capable wifi is a mobile unit I use instead of adsl and gives me wifi access anywhere.


You can buy (I have one) a 4G modem with wifi, sometimes called a mobile hotspot, which recieves its internet from the 4G mobile phone network and distributes it to your laptop, etc, within about 20 metres by wifi.

Or are you saying that you have a tablet which has both 4G (gets internet from the phone network) and wifi (gets internet from a wifi hotspot)?

Wifi is definitely not 4G and 4G is definitely not wifi!

_________________
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 10th, '17, 06:21 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
Sorry Mate I just buy the gear and use it.
I am using a mini iPad without SIM card and accessing the internet by wifi using a Telstra 'netgear'
4G advanced 11 mobile unit that says on the screen I am accessing wifi via my account
TPPGW4G etc. If I don't have the mobile unit on me I can switch the iPad over to access my iPhone if I have it and use 4 G or use free wifi access if available where I am located at the time.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 10th, '17, 07:26 
Offline
Able Skipper
User avatar

Joined: Oct 3rd, '09, 15:17
Posts: 1413
Location: Capalaba
Has thanked: 107 times
Have thanks: 102 times
Hi Tezza,

It sounds like all you need now is a suitable navigation app to run on your iPad. Have a look at Navionics and also Transas iSailor. They both have good charts for Australia. I personally use Transas iSailor as it can receive boat instrument data (that's the NMEA stuff) via WiFi which you might want to look at in the future. Navionics doesn't have that ability. Both apps use the iPad's internal GPS however so you don't need any other equipment to get started.
Right now you just need to (pay for and) install Navionics or Transas iSailor and start using it.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

_________________
Cheers,

Neil

Best By Farr
Farr 6000


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 10th, '17, 07:59 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
Thanks for info Neil,
I have just downloaded the transas app and will have a look this afternoon,
Terry


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 10th, '17, 09:51 
Offline
Able Skipper

Joined: Jan 24th, '13, 20:43
Posts: 1145
Location: Bayside, Melbourne
Has thanked: 21 times
Have thanks: 81 times
Tezza wrote:
Sorry Mate I just buy the gear and use it.
I am using a mini iPad without SIM card and accessing the internet by wifi using a Telstra 'netgear'
4G advanced 11 mobile unit that says on the screen I am accessing wifi via my account
TPPGW4G etc. If I don't have the mobile unit on me I can switch the iPad over to access my iPhone if I have it and use 4 G or use free wifi access if available where I am located at the time.

Ah. You are using a battery powered 4g wifi hotspot. Your iPad is not a cellular (4g or 3G) capable iPad. Thus the iPad will have no gps built into it.

Try iSailor. See if it finds your location. It may by the iPad using triangulation of all the wifi hotspots around you but that is a) inaccurate and b) useless on the water.

_________________
Jim
Castle 650 #96. Mystic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 10th, '17, 10:34 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: May 8th, '16, 17:46
Posts: 92
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 14 times
Goodness. How long is a piece of string. There are a million ways to go about this and probably the biggest problem is deciding which solution suits you best.

With that in mind I'll chuck another option into the mix. This may or may not suit. If you are mostly pottering around from the GC to moreton bay you probably want something that gives you instant depth/underwater view and your location on a chart. You say you have a battery and some sort of charging system for it.

If it were me I'd buy a garmin fish finder with a decent screen size and appropriate transducer. They present a lovely picture of everything under you so you can see exactly what you are about to hit just too late to miss it. Many of these are built for tinnies and fishing kayaks so minimal installation. The garmins seem to have the prettiest pictures.

Here is one on ebay/bcf $179:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Garmin-Strik ... Swxg5XzLLG

here is a review:

http://fishfindersadvisor.com/garmin-striker-4/

To clarify I am by no means suggesting you buy that one, or take any of my advice. I am offering a starting point to look at.

Your second need/want is a chart. Yep using an old ipad or similar may save some money but they aren't very waterproof and it would be inconvenient if the thing turned it's toes up suddenly in the southern bay. Again I'd buy one of the semi portable chartplotters with a big enough screen for you to see some detail.

Garmin has the GPSmap series which are standalone hand held GPSs with a slightly bigger screen and the ability to take charts. No installation.

I found some "proper" charts in electronic form. I think it was these :

http://memory-map.com.au/digital-maps/d ... ralia.html

I don't think you can navigate directly off them, rather they form a background image for whatever gps you are using. They run on the ipad and android and pc etc. I think last I looked you could get the full australia pack for $200 or so. Perhaps for your purposes that would be overkill, but if your sailing up the coast you don't need to buy too many paper charts for that to make sense. As always they need to be kept up to date. And to make it that much more confusing not all charts and devices are compatible. You usually save a packet if you buy charts bundled with the deice.

If you go for a fixed unit pretty much you just need to run power to your battery and a lead to the sonar sensor, which you ill have to do anyway. 4" combo units can be had under $500 with charts, although I'd probably go to a 5" unit. It's rare you need charts and depth at the same time and you can program a minimum depth alarm anyway...

Shop around. These units can be had on ebay for about 2/3 the shop price. No setup, little installation and most are fairly simple to use.

Personally I don't use much of this stuff at all. Obviously on a cat with a 2' draft the mk1 eyeball is sufficient in clear water. I do have an ancient Lowrance GPS which I love. Lasts about a week on 2 AA batteries and tells me where I am. Usually I know where I am because I can see landmarks in the distance but anyway...and I never need to know how fast I'm going but the GPS does that aswell.

Huge decision. Far too many choices.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 10th, '17, 14:19 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
Try iSailor. See if it finds your location. It may by the iPad using triangulation of all the wifi hotspots around you but that is a) inaccurate and b) useless on the water.[/quote] my position
Lat and Long in tri sailor is correct
How they arrived at it I do not know.


Last edited by Tezza on Sep 10th, '17, 14:59, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 10th, '17, 14:57 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
Hi guzzis3,
Thank you for the work you put into this.
I guess I was looking for an easy ( cheap) way of getting a full instrument pack ultimately
Without drilling holes and running cables. The boat does not warrant spending heaps on instruments for me to potter around in .
I have downloaded Beacon to B as well as laminated print outs which is fine to get ones way about the Broardwater but find it a little nervous with no chart datum even in the tinny I have access to let alone a swing keel.
I believe I may be better off getting hold of an in hull analog depth sounder/paddle wheel speedo log combo and putting in the cockpit bulkhead. I will play around with isailor and look
at the gps systems available. Sailing around this end of the coast is a hell of a lot different to PPB and outside the heads where I did most before moving up here.
I initially had plans to do some overnight navigation runs for fun but have scratched that idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 11th, '17, 10:32 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: May 8th, '16, 17:46
Posts: 92
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 14 times
Hi again,

The southern bay is dodgy as. Mind I love it all but so shallow and can change so quickly. The sand moves about aswell so IMO depth is more important than a chart.

I understand your approach, and all the millions of options are fine. What I was suggesting with those instruments though is this:

The stand mounted ones don't need to be permanently fitted, they can just be clamped somewhere convenient.

The tansom mounted transducers are easy enough to install and remove. They aren't as good for forward vision as some but they are cheap and will give you a decent idea of what's going on, especially with the pretty pictures.

The battery connection again can be a temporary thing, and really no more bother than charging your ipad.

Imagine you are pottering through shoals in the southern bay when suddenly your ipad takes firm objection to the salt water and promptly dies on you.

I was at Whitworths one day looking at these electronic things and the person I was talking to pointed out that touch screens are a blessed bother with wet hands, so on small boats are probably not ideal. I thought that was a pointed observation.

The 4" screen combo fish finder/chart plotters can be had for about $400 with charts. I think the 5" is the right size but as always each to their own. Some people run 12" screens for goodness sake :)

Anyway, as long as you are having fun :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 11th, '17, 13:57 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
You are quite correct Guzzis3.
Thanks Mate


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 11th, '17, 14:21 
Offline
Lakes & Bays Skipper

Joined: Jan 28th, '15, 21:02
Posts: 386
Location: Brisbane
Has thanked: 90 times
Have thanks: 52 times
Tezza wrote:
I have a spare iPad ,wifi I could leave on boat but have no idea how I would keep it charged ...


If the boat does not already have an MPPT get one, and spend the extra $10 or so to get one with a USB port. e.g. Sunyo $60 (which I got).

_________________
Austral 20 Mark 2 "Yakumin", Sail Number 108
http://theboattinkerer.blogspot.com.au/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 11th, '17, 16:17 
Offline
CompetentCrew

Joined: Apr 2nd, '17, 17:31
Posts: 53
Location: Paradise ,Brisbane
Has thanked: 19 times
Have thanks: 4 times
MartinDreaming wrote:
Tezza wrote:
I have a spare iPad ,wifi I could leave on boat but have no idea how I would keep it charged ...


If the boat does not already have an MPPT get one, and spend the extra $10 or so to get one with a USB port. e.g. Sunyo $60
(which I got).


Good idea, I have noted it down to check.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 11th, '17, 16:38 
Offline
Able Skipper
User avatar

Joined: Oct 16th, '06, 15:40
Posts: 1328
Location: Cairns, Effin' Queue
Has thanked: 132 times
Have thanks: 75 times
Note that the usnb port on the Sunyo is only 1.2amp. not much. My phone won't even recognise that low.

_________________
Seaway 25 - Time After Time
LC 80 series 97
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaway_25


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group