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PostPosted: Feb 11th, '18, 17:33 
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I may be reading the article incorrectly but from what I understood TT outboards are banned from importing from July 18 and sales of new motors banned from july19. If that is the case as a buyer am I better off waiting till later this year or should Inbe looking now.

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PostPosted: Feb 11th, '18, 19:23 
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Is it only the sale of "new" two strokes from 7/19 or would it include selling second-hand ones? Not that it worries us TSPers as all our motors are "new" according to most ads. :roll:

Is there any suggestion that using two strokes will be banned?

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PostPosted: Feb 11th, '18, 21:07 
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Can we have a link to the source article please?

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PostPosted: Feb 11th, '18, 21:25 
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https://www.boatsales.com.au/editorial/ ... rds-58526/

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PostPosted: Feb 11th, '18, 21:34 
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So if anyone is thinking of a Tohatsu M9.8B two stroke with 25" leg as an alternative to the Sailpro 25" 6hp four stroke, this is the season to buy it.

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PostPosted: Feb 11th, '18, 22:12 
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Thanks MoodyBlue that’s where I read it . Been off air with thunderstorm.
I gather it’s only new .

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PostPosted: Feb 12th, '18, 11:14 
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Quote:
After July 1, 2019, any carbie outboards in stock at dealers or importers must be destroyed or re-exported. Those engines in operation and privately owned are still OK to use. The regulations apply to the sale of new engines only.


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PostPosted: Feb 12th, '18, 11:56 
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Should we all be buying spares like impellers or are they likely to be stocked for some years by dealers?

If the spares back-up won't be there, maybe it wouldn't be so good to buy the last new 2 strokes :?

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PostPosted: Feb 12th, '18, 20:00 
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Nb it also applies to brushcutters, chainsaws, mowers etc - so if , for eg, you'd prefer a brushcutter / chainsaw with a decent power to weight ratio - I guess you need to decide on the benefits of buying now vs potential run out sales in a year or so?

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PostPosted: Feb 12th, '18, 20:44 
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I just tried to find a 4 stroke chainsaw in OZ and all I could see were cheap Chinese brands. Stihl and Husky seem to be staying with fancy 2 strokes designed to reduce emissions. Surely they wouldn't be doing this if the world was about to ban 2 strokes!

Apart from weight, chainsaws get used at all sorts of angles and I wonder how well a 4 stroke would work in some situations.

These tools get used in dirty, rough situations and the simple 2 stroke copes with that. I wonder how well 4 strokes will cope. I know our Landcare group used to have a Honda 4 stroke brushcutter which was quite good, but it did lose compression and have to be retired earlier than our 2 stroke Stihls. From what I have seen, local councils use 2 stroke saws and brushcutters.

Mowers, brushcutters etc all stay more or less upright and Honda have done 4 strokes in these forever, but not sure about the future of chainsaws.

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PostPosted: Feb 12th, '18, 21:05 
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Did more Googling and found that the OPEA (Outdoor Power Equipment Assoc.) has provided a detailed summary of where we are at and how it will affect us. For example, the ACCC has ruled that spares must be available for 5 years.

Here is a short grab from their summary:


But first, just to clear up the nonsense being spread by certain dealers: the law is NOT a ban on two strokes. It is an emissions limit for new imports starting in 2018. There are different standards for:
• ground supported machines (mowers, generators etc where only four strokes will meet the standard);
• hand held machines (chainsaws, blowers etc) have a more generous standard and we will see mostly quality two strokes and most existing four strokes survive;
• marine where four strokes and the unique Direct Injection two stroke outboards will pass.

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PostPosted: Feb 12th, '18, 22:27 
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Link for Peter's quote above:

http://opea.net.au/bulletin/

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 07:53 
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Peter Yates wrote:
our Landcare group used to have a Honda 4 stroke brushcutter which was quite good, but it did lose compression and have to be retired earlier than our 2 stroke From what I have seen, local councils use 2 stroke saws and brushcutters.

Mowers, brushcutters etc all stay more or less upright and Honda have done 4 strokes in these forever, but not sure about the future of chainsaws.


The council have to consider the risk of workcover claims - so they want the lightest, least vibrating option that is capable of getting the job done.

For a given weight, the honda 4 stroke will typicall only have 2/3 the power of an equivalent weight blue smoker - eg hondas top spec 35 cc ( umk 435) is 7 kg and 1.2 kw , which is about mid spec stihl power ( fs 131 @ 5.9 kg) or going on weight you'd be getting an extra 0.5 kw ( fs240 - 1.7 kw) .

1.1 kg or an extra 0.5 kw may not sound like much, but after spending an hour swinging my stihl I'm glad our local honda / stihl agent talked me into the stihl!!!!

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 09:00 
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I think sometime last year ALDI had a hedgetrimmer and something else that I was surprised to see were 4 stroke. Once they conquer fusion perhaps all these gadgets will be nuclear powered.

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 13:35 
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Tinggu wrote:
I think sometime last year ALDI had a hedgetrimmer and something else that I was surprised to see were 4 stroke. Once they conquer fusion perhaps all these gadgets will be nuclear powered.


240v from nuclear would work. Until then though I just use 240v from renewables and Townsville coal powered electrical station! Everything starts 1st go is light and reliable.

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 13:52 
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Tinggu wrote:
I think sometime last year ALDI had a hedgetrimmer and something else that I was surprised to see were 4 stroke. Once they conquer fusion perhaps all these gadgets will be nuclear powered.


Fusion is so Hollywood 20th century DeLorean DMC-12.

The 21st century solution is Tesla-esque Lithium Ion batteries.

Image

Image

Seriously; the real shortcoming with anything battery powered is limited energy density. But with work tools, unlike transport (cars, outboards, etc) you don't need to carry an "all day" battery - stopping for a quick cold drink and swapping batteries isn't a problem. The minimum battery weight is likely to be dictated by the discharge load; like a car starter battery, it's got to deliver enough power. As long as it lasts longer than the user does before he wants to stop for a breather (or the job is done), additional battery storage can sit in the back of the ute in the form of more individual batteries.

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 14:16 
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The thing is that doing any serious chainsaw or whipper-snipper/brushcutter work, you tend to go for about an hour before needing a break and that is about how long a tank of fuel lasts.

I have never used a battery version of these but I seriously doubt that any current (sorry) battery that was light enough would provide the real grunt and last long enough to do this.

I am a big fan of the 18volt Ryobi range, but for example, the 2.4 amp battery on the compressor will inflate one tyre, possibly two. For short sharp jobs like angle grinding or drilling or sawing, it is great, but heavy load wipes the batteries out quickly.

No doubt batteries will continue to improve rapidly but at least at the budget end of the market - not there yet.

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 14:38 
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Oh I don't use batteries I use 240v with long cords. If needed my Genny can run a few.

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 16:56 
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Peter Yates wrote:
I am a big fan of the 18volt Ryobi range, but for example, the 2.4 amp battery on the compressor will inflate one tyre, possibly two. For short sharp jobs like angle grinding or drilling or sawing, it is great, but heavy load wipes the batteries out quickly.

No doubt batteries will continue to improve rapidly but at least at the budget end of the market - not there yet.


Yeah, but at least small battery chainsaws and mowers are appearing on the market; nuclear fusion powered chainsaws haven't even reached prototype stage yet!

You're right of course; for high and near continuous power applications like bigger chainsaws and mowers, batteries that can deliver enough power for a long enough time are still too big, even when you've got several more ready to swap over.

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 21:13 
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Peter Yates wrote:
The thing is that doing any serious chainsaw or whipper-snipper/brushcutter work, you tend to go for about an hour before needing a break and that is about how long a tank of fuel lasts.

I have never used a battery version of these but I seriously doubt that any current (sorry) battery that was light enough would provide the real grunt and last long enough to do this.

I am a big fan of the 18volt Ryobi range, but for example, the 2.4 amp battery on the compressor will inflate one tyre, possibly two. For short sharp jobs like angle grinding or drilling or sawing, it is great, but heavy load wipes the batteries out quickly.

No doubt batteries will continue to improve rapidly but at least at the budget end of the market - not there yet.


My ryobi 18 v whipper snipper with the 5 amp battery it came with is JUST good enough to trim the tiny garden at paynesville. It's a whipper snipper, NOT a brushcutter! ( we use the stihl with harness at home) . I guess suitable for domestic use would be a kind description?

BTW , I treated myself to the ryobi buffer today ( I couldn't be bothered rigging up electricity to polish the hull at allawah) - it did a surprisingly good job ( both sides of the hull out of one battery) . I also bought their led spotlight - apparently it's possible for a torch to be too bright

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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '18, 22:57 
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A different perspective on the battery powered vs 2 stroke.

I love my 2 stroke Victa, I'm sentimental as its from a period when things were fully Australian manufactured. But it needs a full rebuild which would have cost almost as much as a new mower.

I was discussing it with my family, they are the ones who mostly cut the lawn when I'm away for work at sea. They were apprehensive about the Victa, it was perceived as loud, smelly and hard to start. I percieve it as performing a safety function as it lives on my old outboard fuel and I'm not tempted to go out a weekend with old fuel.

They wanted a new key start Victa. We had a look at them and then the fully electric Victas. I decided to go fully electric Victa.

Only had it two weeks but its good. My son isn't intimidated by the mower and cuts the lawn once a week without complaints. I can hold a conversation with him while hes mowing. The battery lasts for a 900m^2 block.

It hasn't got the grunt of the two stroke but if I can come back after a couple of months at sea and the yard does not needs days of work to get it tidy then I'm all for electric.

The outcome may be more pleasure sailing!.


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PostPosted: Feb 14th, '18, 10:21 
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I've done without a cordless drill for some time and taken a forced re - liking to my old hand crank drill for simple jobs. I'm glad I kept it. I've been too bemused by the massive range of the new generation battery tools to make a choice of manufacturer, as once you get the kit of charger and batteries you are locked into that brand. There seems to be a definite praising of Ryobi here so I may make the plunge and visit the big hardware place with my recently received gift card. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Feb 14th, '18, 10:37 
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Both my sons use Bosch battery tools, one set is the 10.7 V tools that are light and brilliant for everything I've needed to do.

The other son has the blue 18V tools that are equally brilliant but heavier to hold which is ok if your using them continually but a bit much if I'm using them for a long job for a single day, the arms suffer by the end of the day.

Its hard to go past the Bosch 10.7V after you have used them for a job.

Most tradies go Ryobi and other brands for the field replacement warranty and reliability. Most of us won't pay the premium on insurance for the field services.

Forgot to mention my GMC and Ozito tools that are still doing my handiman stuff at a quater of the price of the other brands.

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PostPosted: Feb 14th, '18, 12:54 
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In the past my favourite brands have been Hitachi and Makita. I bought them in the mid 80s and they are all still going strong. I was particularly impressed with Hitachi whose tools were easily repairable and the spare parts reasonably priced and available. I could not guess whether that remains the case. Now only using the tools as a handyman I cannot justify the top shelf. I'd heard very ordinary reports of Bosch in the 2000s.

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PostPosted: Feb 14th, '18, 12:56 
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Jon wrote:
A different perspective on the battery powered vs 2 stroke.

I love my 2 stroke Victa, I'm sentimental as its from a period when things were fully Australian manufactured. But it needs a full rebuild which would have cost almost as much as a new mower.

I was discussing it with my family, they are the ones who mostly cut the lawn when I'm away for work at sea. They were apprehensive about the Victa, it was perceived as loud, smelly and hard to start. I percieve it as performing a safety function as it lives on my old outboard fuel and I'm not tempted to go out a weekend with old fuel.

They wanted a new key start Victa. We had a look at them and then the fully electric Victas. I decided to go fully electric Victa.

Only had it two weeks but its good. My son isn't intimidated by the mower and cuts the lawn once a week without complaints. I can hold a conversation with him while hes mowing. The battery lasts for a 900m^2 block.

It hasn't got the grunt of the two stroke but if I can come back after a couple of months at sea and the yard does not needs days of work to get it tidy then I'm all for electric.

The outcome may be more pleasure sailing!.


It's funny but once I learned to pull the cord slowly, rather than try to make myself out to be the world's strongest man, my old Briggs and Stratton seems to start first pull every time.

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