Mooring spring?

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Peter Yates
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Mooring spring?

Post by Peter Yates » Mar 16th, '18, 15:40

I have a jetty berth now for Tricksy comprising a small finger jetty off the main wharf and two piles about ten metres out.

I have made up two stern lines and plan to measure up and make two bow lines to go on the poles.

I considered having some sort of spring to reduce shock loads if there is a storm.

Recently I inherited a box of goodies including this very strong spring which does look a lot like the mooring spring in WW catalogue. But theirs has a loop at each end for the line whereas this one only has one loop.

Any ideas what it is and whether it could be used for my project?
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by bachus » Mar 16th, '18, 16:30

Put a length of rope up the centre of the spring (bottom to the loop). Find something to stop the rope being pulled out that jams on the spring end at the loop end, fasten another rope to the loop. Stretch the two ropes and the spring will compress. The fact one rope is in the centre of the spring means that the compression axis will be good. As to how to "fasten" the top to the spring end maybe a shackle small enough to slide between the two vertical pieces but the curved part of the shackle inside the spring and the shackle key stopping the shackle being pulled through the spring. . . a brain teaser this.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by zebedee » Mar 16th, '18, 21:16

If you push the loop towards the spring, you can then squeeze the two legs together to remove the loop from the spring. It looks to me like somebody has already removed the other loop.

If you do cobble something up to allow it to be used, be very careful any rope doesn't chafe on the other components.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Jack » Mar 16th, '18, 22:05

I’m with you Zeb. One of these maybe? Tent springs from a camping store.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by az100 » Mar 16th, '18, 22:40

I would not bother with metal springs for this application. I doubt it would last long if you ever get it to work satisfactory. Why not use a rubber snubber? These come in different sizes for different loads.
Or, you could use the concrete filled plastic bucket idea that one often sees with penned boats.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by zebedee » Mar 16th, '18, 22:49

Jack wrote:I’m with you Zeb. One of these maybe? Tent springs from a camping store.
Except MUCH bigger, stainless steel and $30 apiece!

Better go see if Jason has any on special at Discount Seamart?

Mooring snubbers don't seem to be much (if any) cheaper. Springs seem to be much more common around here. Perhaps with boats which are often left unattended for weeks to months, they avoid risks of undetected UV damage and failures? Or perhaps everybody simply copies what is on the boat in the next pen?
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Sue H » Mar 17th, '18, 07:08

Hi Peter. We put the rubber snubbers (the ones you weave the line in and out of) on our mooring lines and it was quite amazing the difference it made when the boat was subject to side on wave action from power boats - eg in Paynesville and up the Tambo.... also in some of the strong gusts we experience during strong winds/storms; the snubbers seemed to take a fair bit of the shock out of the wind on boat impact. I don't know if the weight of the craft has a bearing on it too and wonder if the lighter boat will generate the inertia to make them stretch ??? Hope I've explained this so you get the idea.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Bligh » Mar 17th, '18, 07:52

That dreadful Bunnings rope may work, I tried to tow a dead ride on mower with it and it almost doubled in length before anything moved.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by bachus » Mar 17th, '18, 09:00

My mooring lines are quality 6mm nylon.
http://www.ropegalore.com.au/o6mm-x-100 ... -delivery/

The lines have 760kg rating. There is no need for a snubber. They have incredible elasticity. Yes very thin. I do back them up with a looser fit heavier double braid for longer term mooring.
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Peter Yates
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Peter Yates » Mar 17th, '18, 09:57

zebedee wrote:
Jack wrote:I’m with you Zeb. One of these maybe? Tent springs from a camping store.
Except MUCH bigger, stainless steel and $30 apiece!

Better go see if Jason has any on special at Discount Seamart?

Mooring snubbers don't seem to be much (if any) cheaper. Springs seem to be much more common around here. Perhaps with boats which are often left unattended for weeks to months, they avoid risks of undetected UV damage and failures? Or perhaps everybody simply copies what is on the boat in the next pen?

Trouble is EVERY pen has a different system and some are quite dodgy looking.

I'm not looking to go to great lengths (pardon the pun) but mostly just curious as to what this device might be. I think I know now as most of the things in the huge box of bits I inherited are broken or missing parts. If I go near Melbourne (perish the thought) I might try Discount Seamart.

I quite like the concept of a heavy weight, such as the concrete filled bucket in the middle of the rope to give a more gradual shock load but I think I will just go for Sue's device if anything. With that device it doesn't matter if the rubber bit breaks as the line is continuous.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Jack » Mar 17th, '18, 12:22

+ 1 with Sue. We do not keep the boat on a pen/jetty so can only share our experience with tying up on jetties when on the boat. After being caught out in a stressfull storm that put huge snap/shock forces onto the cleats/boat, we now use these on nylon mooring line. Like Sue, we found the difference it makes is significant and it’s no longer stressful worrying about the forces on the cleats. We only use one, but you can put them in a series if required. Not sure what else is out there, but I can vouch that these work well.

Good luck in your solution.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by INMA » Mar 17th, '18, 15:29

Rigging mooring lines for a Raymond Island Jetty will take some planning to be sure the yacht is secure in all conditions.

Fist thing is to consider how many years in the sun you expect the lines to survive. Its propbably saest to buy from nylon from Ropes Galore, beter to buy the right material first time.

Breaking strain is more relevant in 5 years time compared with the current rating. My guess is 3/4 inch nylon looks good.

Will multiple 3/4 inch lines fit on the tacht's bollards.

I like the rubber snubbers, to get stretch on the line being snubbed, the line can be threaded through the rubber with a helix form so the snubber is twisted and stretched when under larger loads.

The worst conditions will come from offshore so the snubbers should be on those lines.

Remember that a big flood hits the Lakes about every ten years. My only experience with the floods was when the water level almost touched the letterboxes on Raymond Island near the ferry.

You need to be sure your lines can be released when flooding occurs to avoid the need to cut your lines once they are pulling your yacht under.

I prefer to back into a pen.

The water levels below the rudder and keel whill limit the position in some pens, I still prefer to have the yacht as far back as possible.

A spring line from the yacht to a hook on a forward post will help settle the yull into a comfortable position. The same spring line will be handy to control motion backward assuming you hook it in position or hook a longer line temporarily.

The mooring lines should be looped over the poles and secured on the backside with saddles.

Give some thought into how you will lengthen the lines when flood is coming. You may be able to rigs running lines or adjustable lines using the 3/4 inch lines. smaller size of lines for floods is probably ok because its life is months not decades.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by lloydyboy53 » Mar 17th, '18, 15:55

I use plummers rings. They are very cheap and work just as well as the more expensive ones from the chandlery.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Peter Yates » Mar 17th, '18, 17:19

INMA wrote:Rigging mooring lines for a Raymond Island Jetty will take some planning to be sure the yacht is secure in all conditions.
You need to be sure your lines can be released when flooding occurs to avoid the need to cut your lines once they are pulling your yacht under.
The yacht will only be parked at the jetty when we are in residence so if flooding seems imminent we will be departing!
INMA wrote:I prefer to back into a pen.
So do I especially as there is a small finger jetty.
INMA wrote:The water levels below the rudder and keel whill limit the position in some pens, I still prefer to have the yacht as far back as possible.
At low water, I have over a metre at the shallowest part and generally 1.2 metres which should be enough for the I563 with board up.
INMA wrote:The mooring lines should be looped over the poles and secured on the backside with saddles.
I have the saddles waiting to go. All 4 lines will be mounted higher than the deck of the boat, so flooding unlikely to drag the boat downwards.
Thanks for your thoughtful response Greg.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Peridot » Mar 17th, '18, 17:56

A lot of people use a black braid, intended for that purpose.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by INMA » Mar 17th, '18, 18:30

I bought black braided (nylon) many years ago, the diameter was too big for the yacht fittings for dock lines and it had no stretch. FWIW, I never used it and can't think of a marine use.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Peridot » Mar 17th, '18, 20:21

About the Bunnies' rope, yes it does stretch, but the stuff I bouught broke down in sunlight. Nice to use but short life outdoors.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Peter Yates » Mar 17th, '18, 21:37

Not just the Bunnies rope that breaks down in UV. Some of their webbing tie-downs do that too. I had some which looked fine but I could tear the webbing like paper. Probably suitable for indoor use only but doesn't say that on the packaging.

I think it has become an art form to manufacture stuff that looks like really expensive stuff, but doesn't perform like it. :evil:
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Sue H » Mar 17th, '18, 21:38

Proper mooring rope has a degree of stretch and is soft on the hands... combined with the snubbers it has served us quite well, been exposed to sun, salt and weather and hasn't shown too much wear at all after 8 years. I think it comes in different sizes and I've just bought some more actually to make up some dedicated spring lines... quite a good deal available from discount seamart atm.

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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by zebedee » Mar 17th, '18, 21:43

Peridot wrote:About the Bunnies' rope, yes it does stretch, but the stuff I bouught broke down in sunlight. Nice to use but short life outdoors.
Peter
I bought what looked like ordinary nylon mooring rope from Bunnings some years ago; it lasted about 18 months before it disintegrated with little warning. I don't mean it lost a bit of strength; I mean it looked just fine, but crumbled in my hands if twisted and broke under perhaps 5kg of tension.

It plainly had no UV stabiliser in it and was not fit to leave out in the sun.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Bligh » Mar 18th, '18, 11:17

I had one of those cheap stripey plastic bags and put it over the OB for some protection, about two months later I went to take it off and it was like a snow storm as it just disentigrated.
In the company of a few I used one of those ropes to try and get up a bank off the boat, I stepped off and let the rope take my weight and it gently lowered me into the river despite my frantic climbing.
We now use it as emergency fence repair when the horses break the wires.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Peter Yates » Mar 18th, '18, 19:38

Right - I have given up on the mystery spring and comments welcomed on my plan for mooring lines at the jetty to minimise shock loads. The jetty is pretty well protected from wave action from most quarters and I don't see any snubbers or springs on surrounding boats, but I still think spending a few bucks might be good insurance.

I have made up stern lines which will only be about 1.5 metres long and I plan to buy one of the rubber snubbers as used by Sue for each of these short lengths. The bow lines to the poles are about 4.5m long and I plan to order two 6.1m lengths of the 10mm nylon double braided mooring line from WW. Sounds like it has built in surge load protection so in that longer length it should have enough give.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by INMA » Mar 18th, '18, 20:32

That black braided line i decided not to use was Whitworths mooring lines. Buy a role of what you need from Ropes Galore and lean to splice.
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by zebedee » Mar 18th, '18, 21:06

Peter Yates wrote:The jetty is pretty well protected from wave action from most quarters...
...Any thoughts?
I should have gone for a ferry ride and a walk this afternoon and had a look at your berth in wild weather. To be honest, I was reluctant to stray too far from my own boat (tied up on the inside of Fisherman's wharf) for a couple of hours; it was pretty vigorous!
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Re: Mooring spring?

Post by Furstin » Mar 18th, '18, 21:07

Or WW sometimes have xxm of 8-10mm anchorline on sale for a good price.

Have two springs from each pole lead to the primary winches (splice long enough to loop twice around), a line from each pole to the bow cleat (double check backing plate) a bit longer than take up from springs. Then one each stern line (slack enough to allow it to get pulled over to wharf). The length from the poles of 25ft? will have heaps of shock load give.

You can splice up the springs and just adjust the bow lines until length correct, mark with a marker and splice.

Either way, as you say, its only there when you are, but one needs to sleep well when it blows up and not worry.

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