I need a new Genoa

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Jack
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I need a new Genoa

Post by Jack » Jan 6th, '18, 20:58

My furling Genoa is falling apart and I need to replace. At first I thought it was the UV strip, but upon closer inspection, the actual sail is ripping across the leech in a number of spots with several other areas ready to go. It seems that the fabric is pulling apart. I think it is an old UK Horizon tape drive sail.

My preference is to support a local sailmaker if I can hopefully get a competitive price. I hope it is easy as - give them the old sail, they make you a new one and you pay for the service. However, I would be foolish not to also consider a loft like Far East sails, as money is always an issue.

So who would you recommend? Tips, etc. How long did you have to wait? What is the range of costs? I live in Melbourne. Duncanson 26. Furler. No racing. Cruising the Gippsland lakes. I keep the boat mast up storage, so tend to not remove the sail.

I would like to also get a quote from the likes of Far East sails, but find the website measurements a bit overwhelming and I am concern I may I stuff up the measurements. Is it just a matter of measuring the existing sail and sending them these measurements?

Please don’t let this become a local vs overseas argument. I have always supported local where I can, even when it has costed slightly more.

Thanking you all in advance.
Cheers
Jack
Duncanson 26 DO27

pdandy
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by pdandy » Jan 6th, '18, 21:26

All my sails on the noelex are from Peter Green ( Seaford) - fair prices for a good product and he's more than happy to discuss cost vs benefit ( he actually tried to talk me out of my latest set, offering to recut my old sails instead). Unfortunately, this time of year he's pretty busy. It may be worth emailing him and asking for a quote , although I suspect the quote would be lower if you asked in May.

Nb when comparing local quotes with overseas lofts, remember to include things like tell tales, adjustable leech and foot lines, reinforcing pads, and sail material - on my previous boat I bought a tasker genoa and it was VERY basic - eg I had to buy / fit my own tell tales, there was only a leech adjustment via a knot ( ie no cleats on the sail , and no foot adjustment) Each corner had minimal reinforcement, and the icing on the cake is that tasker sail was flogged within 2 years! It was my first new sail so I had no idea what to specify - now that I've dealt with an enthusiastic sail maker I'm a lot more fussy!
noelex 25 green velvet

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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Castle 610 » Jan 6th, '18, 22:16

Jack try Jamie Thompson he is really good value and located in eastern suburbs of Melb.
But l have also heard really good things of Peter Green.
Stephen
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AZAmagnum
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by AZAmagnum » Jan 7th, '18, 07:43

We have Far East sails on our latest Ross780.
Dacron main, pentex #1, dacron #2.

I cannot fault the service and email correspondence highly enough.
Sails are as good quality as any local place.

We race against other Ross780's and we are just as competitive with our Far East sails. Crew work lets us down mostly ! :lol:

Nothing is a problem for them, but you just have to stipulate what you want.
They will provide a quote based on basic measurements. Then you can get into the weeds with the options and design parameters etc.
There are many check points along the way, which helps you end up with a good product.

Price was approx. one third of the local lofts.

Far East use cloth from the big makers like Bainbridge, Contender and Dimension Polyant.

From signing off the design to delivery to our door(TNT, tracking all the way) was only a couple of weeks.

We are happy with our choice and will look at them making a kite for us soon.

Az
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barnaclephill
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by barnaclephill » Jan 7th, '18, 13:15

October 2016: $2676 for a brand new genoa http://www.horizonsails.com.au/
28 foot yacht. All the sunbrella strip, the tell tails, the luff adjusting rope and sleeve, etc. Local manufacturer in Sandringham. You get to discuss the fabric, how the thing is made (panel orientation), etc. You get to put your ideas and requests to them and get instant feedback. And a 5 year warranty.
Northerner28.

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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by pdandy » Jan 7th, '18, 14:55

barnaclephill wrote:October 2016: $2676 for a brand new genoa http://www.horizonsails.com.au/
28 foot yacht. All the sunbrella strip, the tell tails, the luff adjusting rope and sleeve, etc. Local manufacturer in Sandringham. You get to discuss the fabric, how the thing is made (panel orientation), etc. You get to put your ideas and requests to them and get instant feedback. And a 5 year warranty.
Jack, don't get scared off by those prices - that's for a 28 foot keelboat. You should be able to get both main and genoa for that sort of $ ( I paid less than that for a dacron main and my racing ultralight laminate genoa on the nx, and the after sales service was phenominal - I returned the genoa after it lost an argument with some deck hardware, and he repaired the damage I had done plus did a gentle recut after some very fussy feedback - all for free!
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Bligh
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Bligh » Jan 7th, '18, 21:13

Another vote for Peter Green, takes the time to discuss your needs and is reasonably priced.
Likes a bit of a yarn too when he's not too busy.
Does a lot of work for UYA, my last purchase was a boom cover which is really a nice fit but has made sails for us years ago.
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Jon
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Jon » Jan 7th, '18, 22:12

Within the last 12 months I have had several sails made from local and overseas lofts. I also used Peter Green last year to add an extra set of reefing points to my main and they were very good.

Barracouta (Sydney) made up my new radial squaretop main. Technically difficult to measure for me due to prebend in the mast. They did a very good job and we talked various options. Boat was measured up with sailmaker and rigger working on it. Cost more but was worth it for peace of mind and after sails service has been good.

Boom cover made by Barracouta matching Far East Sails quote. Made well to the diagram dimensions.

Jib by Far East sails. Their website and pre sale service is very though. What you ask for they will produce exactly. Price was less than 1/3 than the local sailmakers. A good radial sail comes standard with tell tails, camber stripe, sheeting stripe. Changed to stainless snap hanks for no extra cost. Arrived on time at the right price but let down slightly by sailmakers notes written on each radial pannel with a waterproof marker. The figures are noticeable. Overall I am very happy for the price of $750 delivered.

Storm Jib by Rolly Tasker. Bought new jib, second hand, sight unseen. Poorly made and obviously built to a price.

Gennaker by Quantum (different boat ) Designed by Australian sailmaker but made in Sri Lanka. A quality mid price sail.

So good experiences in late 2017 from Barracoota and Far East. My philosophy is do the technically demanding stuff local and the easy stuff overseas to take advantage of the price.
Last edited by Jon on Jan 7th, '18, 22:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Jack
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Jack » Jan 7th, '18, 22:55

Thank you all for your advice, it is really appreciated. I will be making some calls this week to the local guys you all suggested and have a chat with them. It seems that they prefer to make the sail from rig measurements and not from measurements from the old clapped out sail - I get it now. I will be measuring at the end of the week - nervous as one wrong measurement can be costly. I will pick up some tape to patch the tears and go for a sail or two as well. So if you see a boat with some a patchy heady sailing on the Gippsland lakes at the end of this week - say hi. Once again, thanks and keep your advice coming.
Cheers
Jack
Duncanson 26 DO27

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barnaclephill
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by barnaclephill » Jan 8th, '18, 02:32

Horizon have a set of pages on their website with all the diagrams and dimensions you need to measure. Some of it depends on a furler and the height and offset of the furling drum. So download the pages so you can plan the measuring.
Northerner28.

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madmission
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by madmission » Jan 8th, '18, 08:05

A word of caution , back in 2014 after exhaustive research , i purchased , at > 30 % more than i could have paid elsewhere , a full wardrobe of sails from horizon , mainsail and 3 heady's .

The result was so pitiful in both quality and service it resulted after much protracted argument and anxiety with an award from VCAT to both fully refund the cost of the sails and reimburse my consequential losses.

The whole episode left me with such disappointment and trauma that i have to this day avoided replacing my sails , abandoned plans to race the B20 and continue to just cruise around on my old set repairing them as they need.

So tread carefully , get everything in writing and good luck.

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Bligh
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Bligh » Jan 8th, '18, 08:24

I remembered that but could not recall either party, a poor fit as I recall.
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colect149
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by colect149 » Jan 8th, '18, 09:08

It was a lot deeper than just a poor fit.
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garymalmgren
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by garymalmgren » Jan 8th, '18, 10:43

This thread really shows how the Internet has empowered consumers (us).
I trust the opinions and experiences of TSP members more than any million dollar advertising campaign.
I learn something every time I log in.
Thank you all.
Gary

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Tezza
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Tezza » Jan 10th, '18, 23:50

Correctly or not figured that with the Northern Hemisphere being in the grip of a pretty savage winter it might be a good time to get a quote from Far East Sails for a new main for the Sonata. They quoted
USD 442 using challenge performance cruising cross cut . Place order today.
Sonata 6 Mango

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Gezza
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Gezza » Jan 11th, '18, 00:49

That is a very smart price. Maybe I should do the same.
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AZAmagnum
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by AZAmagnum » Jan 11th, '18, 20:57

Tezza wrote:Correctly or not figured that with the Northern Hemisphere being in the grip of a pretty savage winter it might be a good time to get a quote from Far East Sails for a new main for the Sonata. They quoted
USD 442 using challenge performance cruising cross cut . Place order today.
Tezza,
Far East Sails sent me a detailed drawing of our mainsail, showing panels, battens, dimensions, depth % etc.
It was very easy to use this drawing to compare the proposed sail to the class rules. I think I even pegged out the dimensions on the back lawn and compared it to an existing main.
We ended up requesting less margin for stretch, resulting in a slightly larger sail delivered (but still within the class rules and black bands)
Next time you email Michael, tell him Aaron Weare said to say hi.
cheers,
Aza

Oh yes, our main is cross cut also. Couldn't see the performance advantage crosscut Vs Triradial in a dacron main. Our #1 is a triradial laminate from FES.
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Tezza
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Tezza » Jan 12th, '18, 00:18

AZAmagnum wrote:
Tezza wrote:Correctly or not figured that with the Northern Hemisphere being in the grip of a pretty savage winter it might be a good time to get a quote from Far East Sails for a new main for the Sonata. They quoted
USD 442 using challenge performance cruising cross cut . Place order today.
Tezza,
Far East Sails sent me a detailed drawing of our mainsail, showing panels, battens, dimensions, depth % etc.
It was very easy to use this drawing to compare the proposed sail to the class rules. I think I even pegged out the dimensions on the back lawn and compared it to an existing main.
We ended up requesting less margin for stretch, resulting in a slightly larger sail delivered (but still within the class rules and black bands)
Next time you email Michael, tell him Aaron Weare said to say hi.
cheers,
Aza

Oh yes, our main is cross cut also. Couldn't see the performance advantage crosscut Vs Triradial in a dacron main. Our #1 is a triradial laminate from FES.
Thanks for that info Aza. I sent off deposit yesterday and received confirmation from Michael today . Was very tempted to get quote for a number 1,3 and kite as well but decided to see the main first. I’ll let you know how it progresses.
Will do .
Terry
Sonata 6 Mango

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lloydyboy53
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by lloydyboy53 » Jan 13th, '18, 19:34

Hey Tezza
I don't think you will be disappointed! I'm on my second set of sails from Fareast. One for the Boomaroo and now for the RL28. Price, Communication Attention to detail and Quality can't be beaten by anyone here.
Cheers John
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Tezza
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Tezza » Jan 13th, '18, 22:09

lloydyboy53 wrote:Hey Tezza
I don't think you will be disappointed! I'm on my second set of sails from Fareast. One for the Boomaroo and now for the RL28. Price, Communication Attention to detail and Quality can't be beaten by anyone here.
I’m getting that feeling .
Hey Aza I gave your regards to Michael and he was quite chuffed .
Sonata 6 Mango

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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by bull sails » Feb 12th, '18, 21:04

lloydyboy53 wrote:Hey Tezza
I don't think you will be disappointed! I'm on my second set of sails from Fareast. One for the Boomaroo and now for the RL28. Price, Communication Attention to detail and Quality can't be beaten by anyone here.
I have found fareast sails to be the cheapest in the world! Supposedly using the same cloth as other more prestigious companies.
Wonder what conditions they are made under?

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AZAmagnum
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by AZAmagnum » Feb 14th, '18, 20:26

Fareast Sails Dacron main and Pen05 #1 headsail.
Cant remember the cloth manufacturer. One was DP (Dimension Polyant) and the other Contender maybe ?
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Jack
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by Jack » Sep 29th, '18, 12:05

To close off this loop.

I contacted both the suggested local sail makers (Thompson & Green) as well as John Hooper. I also contacted East sails as well as Peak in the States. So here is wash-up.

My existing genoa is a cross cut laminate sail with Carbon fibre reinforcing tapes. I settled for a new cross cut Dimension Polyant Dacron with foam luff.

Apart from Far East which I did barter with, I did not barter with the local sailmakers - I asked for their best final price and went with that. All local makers were very helpful and informative.

Peak in the USA, quoted the best price even better than what FarEast could do and were 30% - 50% under the local prices - but Google said that they allegedly had a few delivery glitches in their past, so I was nervous- but almost took the gamble. Far East was approx 10-40% under local and was everything everybody said - very helpful and prompt.

It ended being between FarEast and Hooper but eventually I went with John Hooper. John was helpful and provided excellent advice. He built me a nice sail and I sailed it all of this week in various conditions. This large 135% genoa is flat as a blade no matter how much I have it rolled in.

The ability to point higher was noticeable as well as the ability to carry more sail which resulted in higher speed whilst remaining upright and not being overpowered. Yesterday afternoon we were beating in winds in high teens gusting above 20 and it performed brilliantly even when partially rolled in. My grinning wife was on the tiller and I could not get it off her. Happy days.

The only issue I had was that it occasionally rolled up with a couple of small creases, but i managed to rectify this by ensuring that I had the cars set correctly and keeping tension on.

Overall I am happy with the sail and happy that I went with a local maker.

Thank you all for all your advice and hope that my journey may somewhat help others.

Happy sailing.
Cheers
Jack
Duncanson 26 DO27

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garymalmgren
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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by garymalmgren » Sep 29th, '18, 20:02

Hi Jack
Thanks for getting back to us on this.
You sure did your homework.
Gary

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Re: I need a new Genoa

Post by sailboatmike » Sep 29th, '18, 21:49

Peak sails have HUGE wraps on the US forums, from all reports brilliant quality at a good price.

My preference would be for Judy B sails (Hyde Sails Direct) from the USA but the AU$ is rubbish at the moment, never heard anything but huge wraps on their sails.

I'm really happy with my new set of North Sails we imported from the USA last year, cost us less than $3K in total for a 115% furling Jib, new main and and a radial cut assy spinnaker plus a one line reefing system and a upgraded outhaul system, theses were the the middle of the road option sails in materials and cut, but then again they make literally 100's of these every year as the Mac X and M share the same Jib and spinnaker
Cheers Mike
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