winches

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tipsy2
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winches

Post by tipsy2 » Sep 9th, '18, 17:04

Are any of the cheap (and quick to get) electric trailer winches on ebay any good? I am thinking about 2500kg. capacity.
Recommendations please.
Thanks

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bachus
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Re: winches

Post by bachus » Sep 9th, '18, 18:24

I have a $100 3000lb “Ebay” winch that I have run for a few years now. But I do carry a manual winch I can bolt in place if it all goes rear end up so to speak. Although I do dread a bunch of angry fishos remonstrating while I do this cos of course it will fail when I have one of “their” spots on the ramp.
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Slammin
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Re: winches

Post by Slammin » Sep 9th, '18, 20:08

Mines about a year old and been faultless. The wireless remote is a godsend. I can also use it to assist in the mast raising easily because the rope can be redirected so the pull is from the top. I'm guessing it will fail eventually so kept my old electric one that has a manual backup.

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bachus
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Re: winches

Post by bachus » Sep 9th, '18, 20:28

Yes +1 on the wireless remote. Extremely useful.
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Albin57
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Re: winches

Post by Albin57 » Sep 10th, '18, 02:33

tipsy2 wrote:Are any of the cheap (and quick to get) electric trailer winches on ebay any good? I am thinking about 2500kg. capacity.
Recommendations please.
Thanks
I have a cheap model that I use a single block hooked to the bow and back to the winch where I doubbled the power, and I exchange the wire to kevlar line.Image
Last edited by Albin57 on Sep 10th, '18, 03:40, edited 1 time in total.
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zebedee
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Re: winches

Post by zebedee » Sep 10th, '18, 03:18

I have three winches like the one Albin has shown; one is a genuine X1 for my keel, the second, a Chinese copy with wireless remote, is on my trailer, and the third, with a European brand name and complete with the very same hand control shown above bolts to the roof rack on my ute for loading the dinghy, and lives in the garage ceiling for storing the dinghy the rest of the time. Expect to pay about $80 to $140 on ebay, depending on whether you get a wireless controller with the winch.
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tipsy2
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Re: winches

Post by tipsy2 » Sep 10th, '18, 08:16

Is this type practical, good,bad for a trailer winch?
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tipsy2
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Re: winches

Post by tipsy2 » Sep 10th, '18, 08:22

Or, is this more suitable?
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pdandy
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Re: winches

Post by pdandy » Sep 10th, '18, 08:32

tipsy2 wrote:Is this type practical, good,bad for a trailer winch?
These, but consider investing in one with a synthetic cable
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Slammin
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Re: winches

Post by Slammin » Sep 10th, '18, 18:14

Ditto ^. The first is much betterer but get rope not cable. The second one is a Superwinch copy with crappy cogs etc. The only advantage I can see is that it has manual backup. Also for the price I would go the bigger is better mentality. Less strain hopefully means longer life. Once fitted I would use or make a bucket or box to keep it out of the weather.

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Re: winches

Post by tipsy2 » Sep 11th, '18, 09:17

Thanks Slammin,
I have ordered the next size up from the one in the first photo. I wonder if it will last as long (about 23 years as a winch) as the old one which was home built from Vanguard (anyone remember them) gearbox parts and starter motor.

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Re: winches

Post by Tinggu » Sep 12th, '18, 09:41

I had a '56 Phase 3 Vanguard. Leycock de Normanville electric overdrive in 2nd and third. A lovely, comfortable tub. Had it from new. (that last bit is a lie) Always look at the old grey Fergy fondly as it has the same motor. When I bought the car it was only 20years old. I killed it in 18 months. What was left of the gearbox would not have made a winch. My EA Ford wagon is in much better shape @ 29 years old and no sign of it giving up yet.
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Re: winches

Post by tipsy2 » Sep 12th, '18, 11:08

I think Fergy and Vanguard had a lot in common (about the same top speed for my ute) I have never seen a twin countershaft gearbox in another passenger vehicle. I am an xh falcon fanatic, mine is rusting away at about the same rate as I am but its motor will outlast mine

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Re: winches

Post by MoodyBlue » Sep 12th, '18, 16:43

Tinggu wrote:I had a '56 Phase 3 Vanguard. Always look at the old grey Fergy fondly as it has the same motor.
My current project is a Fergy. Undergoing a 100% no expense spared rebuild.
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PaulS
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Re: winches

Post by PaulS » Sep 12th, '18, 18:51

After you finish the Fergy you can do mine..... 1954 still used regularly to slash etc. I am the third owner (my friend had it in a shed for a bit so I am really the second owner). I know the original owner and the guy who sold it to him new in 1954 :)

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az100
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Re: winches

Post by az100 » Sep 12th, '18, 21:56

Slammin wrote:Ditto ^. The first is much better but get rope not cable. The second one is a Superwinch copy with crappy cogs etc. The only advantage I can see is that it has manual backup. Also for the price I would go the bigger is better mentality. Less strain hopefully means longer life. Once fitted I would use or make a bucket or box to keep it out of the weather.
Agree, I have the first one too after having to sell the second pictured one which was gutless and had crappy cogs.
Now, a proviso with that first winch. It should be fine with a load of up to half its rating. I use mine close at its full rating and a rope (synthetic) doubler sheave.
The winch drum is cast aluminium and poorly designed. The cheek plates cannot take very high side loads as can happen when the rope tries to squeeze in there after a few layers of it are on the drum.

The cheek plate will break - mine did - and its remaining jagged edges easily cut through the synthetic rope under load. Result was my boat, being almost fully loaded, thundering back down the trailer an go swimming along the ramp jetty unattended. Fortunately a tail wind stopped that progress.

Major hassle followed getting the boat on the trailer...

I re built the winch drum ( could not get a reply from seller re spare drum - it was out of warranty.)
The original drum center was turned down and sleeved with a steel tube and steel cheek plates. Its a lot stronger now.
But the motor is good, has lots of power (enough to break the drum :oops: ) and the planetary gears inside also look strong.

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Tinggu
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Re: winches

Post by Tinggu » Sep 13th, '18, 10:21

tipsy2 wrote:I think Fergy and Vanguard had a lot in common (about the same top speed for my ute) I have never seen a twin countershaft gearbox in another passenger vehicle. I am an xh falcon fanatic, mine is rusting away at about the same rate as I am but its motor will outlast mine
Unfair! Have yet to see a Fergy doing 85mph. The fact that it did not go faster is probably why I survived.
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Re: winches

Post by tipsy2 » Sep 13th, '18, 13:11

Tinggu wrote:
tipsy2 wrote:I think Fergy and Vanguard had a lot in common (about the same top speed for my ute) I have never seen a twin countershaft gearbox in another passenger vehicle. I am an xh falcon fanatic, mine is rusting away at about the same rate as I am but its motor will outlast mine
Unfair! Have yet to see a Fergy doing 85mph. The fact that it did not go faster is probably why I survived.


Only a bit unfair, my ute would do 50mph but only empty, with a tail wind and downhill and I think I have probably seen fergys do that in the same conditions with the driver hanging on for grim death wondering why they didn't have decent brakes.

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Slammin
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Re: winches

Post by Slammin » Sep 13th, '18, 19:10

az100 wrote:
Slammin wrote:Ditto ^. The first is much better but get rope not cable. The second one is a Superwinch copy with crappy cogs etc. The only advantage I can see is that it has manual backup. Also for the price I would go the bigger is better mentality. Less strain hopefully means longer life. Once fitted I would use or make a bucket or box to keep it out of the weather.
Agree, I have the first one too after having to sell the second pictured one which was gutless and had crappy cogs.
Now, a proviso with that first winch. It should be fine with a load of up to half its rating. I use mine close at its full rating and a rope (synthetic) doubler sheave.
The winch drum is cast aluminium and poorly designed. The cheek plates cannot take very high side loads as can happen when the rope tries to squeeze in there after a few layers of it are on the drum.

The cheek plate will break - mine did - and its remaining jagged edges easily cut through the synthetic rope under load. Result was my boat, being almost fully loaded, thundering back down the trailer an go swimming along the ramp jetty unattended. Fortunately a tail wind stopped that progress.

Major hassle followed getting the boat on the trailer...

I re built the winch drum ( could not get a reply from seller re spare drum - it was out of warranty.)
The original drum center was turned down and sleeved with a steel tube and steel cheek plates. Its a lot stronger now.
But the motor is good, has lots of power (enough to break the drum :oops: ) and the planetary gears inside also look strong.
Interesting about the broken drum. I just checked mine and it's definitely steel. Just goes to show that they're not all the same. I'm guessing it's 2mm thick. I haven't used or needed a Snatch pulley but think I might do so from now on just in case.

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JimJ
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Re: winches

Post by JimJ » Sep 13th, '18, 23:56

the second pictured one which was gutless and had crappy cogs.
Why not buy the genuine Powerwinch 712 or 912 that has been designed as a trailer winch?

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Slammin
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Re: winches

Post by Slammin » Sep 14th, '18, 06:46

JimJ wrote:
the second pictured one which was gutless and had crappy cogs.
Why not buy the genuine Powerwinch 712 or 912 that has been designed as a trailer winch?
For me they're not wireless,(might be now but not when I bought), I've heard that the cogs are also press cut rubbish steel, they're 4 times the price and I got sick of the stupid clutch press bearings giving up every few years. Oh and steel cable as standard.

I look at all the 4wd and ATV and rigging winches and everyone is using similar winches. There must be a reason?

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az100
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Re: winches

Post by az100 » Sep 14th, '18, 20:15

Slammin wrote: Interesting about the broken drum. I just checked mine and it's definitely steel. Just goes to show that they're not all the same. I'm guessing it's 2mm thick. I haven't used or needed a Snatch pulley but think I might do so from now on just in case.
Well, the alu drum would have been OK *if* all of the cheek plate was the 5-6mm thick one sees at looking at them.

But the idiots that designed them choose to machine a 2mm deep groove for a water seal on the outsides. That groove is right at the drum core thickness, creating a definite weak spot there :evil: .

Had they machined it near the outer rim (requiring a larger O-ring seal) I doubt it would have broken.

Your 2mm thick drum cheeks are a bit thin if there is a groove on the outside. I made mine from 6mm steel :wink: .

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JimJ
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Re: winches

Post by JimJ » Sep 15th, '18, 01:06

I've heard that the cogs are also press cut rubbish steel,
Neither the Powerwinch 712 or the 912 have "press cut rubbish steel" gears. They have slintered metal gears.

You can inspect a steel cable for defects. How do you check a synthetic cable for UV damage?

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Re: winches

Post by Slammin » Sep 15th, '18, 07:35

I'm going on feedback through TSP and elsewhere. From memory there was also multiple failures. Mine still works but sits in the garage. As for the UV rope damage I'm not concerned as mines not in the sun. FWIW Riggers on other forums feel the initial UV damage concerns where overstated. Lots of boats with full rope rigging now.

Horses for courses. Obviously you still like your Superwinch. That's great.

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Re: winches

Post by pdandy » Sep 16th, '18, 17:57

JimJ wrote:
I've heard that the cogs are also press cut rubbish steel,
Neither the Powerwinch 712 or the 912 have "press cut rubbish steel" gears. They have slintered metal gears.

You can inspect a steel cable for defects. How do you check a synthetic cable for UV damage?
For what it's worth, I got 8 years out of my dyneema winch cable on the noelex - left out in the weather ( mast up storage) and retrieving the boat every second week. My track record with steel winch cables was 1/2 years of regular use.

As for the 912 - I had 2 replaced under warranty when the thrust bearings disintegrated / the motor bolts came loose and disintegrated , the. the third one had a bent shaft from new. I pressume your 912 is one of the old made in usa versions and not the made in china ones now available ( I think they changed over about 11/12 years ago) . Whilst it's possible these were teething issues with the transition between factories, why would I pay so much more for a winch I don't trust?
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