Single line reefing

Discussion on how to make that Trailer Sailer go faster & more comfortable
Osprey
CompetentCrew
Posts: 56
Joined: Sep 9th, '16, 22:13

Single line reefing

Post by Osprey » Jul 4th, '17, 22:39

Hi, I am installing the deck hardware on my NIS23. Another post got me thinking about single line reefing. Ive used it before on keelers with poor results and as a result I haven't really considered it until now. I Have three reefs in my main, and with narrow sidedecks and no lifelines having a reliable way to reef (and unreef) from the cockpit is pretty important.

My favorite system is twin line reefing with separate luff and leech pendants but in this case it means 7 lines, 2 per reef and a halyard.

So if you have single line reefing does it work well enough for you? How is it set up? Any tricks for the using it effectively?

Cheers

Ben

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

tipsy2
CompetentCrew
Posts: 96
Joined: Jan 19th, '16, 15:14

Re: Single line reefing

Post by tipsy2 » Jul 5th, '17, 12:45

Don't be fooled into thinking it's a small rig. Main is about the same size as a Ross780.
Mine is internal in the boom. The reefing line goes from the boom through the leech cringal then through a turning block on the boom, then through the boom to another block at the gooseneck end up through the luff cringal down to the mast base then to the winch.
With decent quality low friction blocks (mine are old cheapies) this would probably work okay. I don't have a topping lift and that might also make it easier by taking the weight of the boom

Osprey
CompetentCrew
Posts: 56
Joined: Sep 9th, '16, 22:13

Re: Single line reefing

Post by Osprey » Jul 5th, '17, 15:08

Thanks Tipsy, I get the feeling at the moment this system doesn't work perfectly for you? I was sort of hoping the smaller sails would make it more viable and much easier to overcome the inherit extra friction, but I guess that main is still a pretty big sail. And we are not cranking with big self tailing winches like big boats do.

I know the two line system would work very well. I've used it and slab reefing for many years. My one experience with single line reefing was very disappointing. But it was poorly set up and we hadn't used it before so many of the issues may have been preventable.

Whatever happens the reefing system on osprey needs to be 100% functional, for the way I sail.

Cheers

tipsy2
CompetentCrew
Posts: 96
Joined: Jan 19th, '16, 15:14

Re: Single line reefing

Post by tipsy2 » Jul 5th, '17, 16:37

its not perfect, but it does work. if it didn't work I would fix it, but it will do for now.
We have single reefing on our Farr 1104 and it works well, a one person job in all weathers

User avatar
lloydyboy53
Inshore Skipper
Posts: 194
Joined: Mar 21st, '12, 17:49
Location: portland victoria

Re: Single line reefing

Post by lloydyboy53 » Jul 5th, '17, 19:35

I have single line reefing on my boat and I think it works fine once you get used to it. Try setting up a temporary system on just one reefing point and see how you go, if you don't like it ,nothing lost but a bit of time.
I have a mark on my halyard so I know how much to let out so that I can winch in the reef line, you need to help it a bit to get both ends firm on the boom and then haul the halyard tight again. wiyh a bit of practice it is very quick and easy.
A topping lift helps but you can just lift the boom as you winch in.
good luck
Cheers John
RL28 Pinnaroo, Ford Ranger XLT

Osprey
CompetentCrew
Posts: 56
Joined: Sep 9th, '16, 22:13

Re: Single line reefing

Post by Osprey » Jul 5th, '17, 22:54

Thanks Lloyd, my second reef line should be long enough to work as a single line reef pendant for the first reef. However I still haven't got any hardware on deck so until I screw some stuff on I won't be able to test it out.

I was hoping that I could get away without needing to use the winch to get the reefing line tight enough. This may not be possible with single line reefing in stronger winds or if reefing while running downwind?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

User avatar
bachus
Yachtmaster
Posts: 2040
Joined: Jan 24th, '13, 20:43
Location: Bayside, Melbourne

Re: Single line reefing

Post by bachus » Jul 5th, '17, 23:29

I have single line reefing set up on the castle.

I have a line from the end of the boom, up to a lightweight flying pulley (carbo block) at the first reef point on the leech, down to a pulley on the boom , along the boom to a pulley, up to another flying pulley at the first reef point on the luff then down to a pulley at the mast base, to another deck pulley then to a jammer. The carbo blocks I bought during the BCF throw out sale.

When reefing, I head into the wind, let out the main halyard (the boom drops), haul in the reefing line through the jammer while pulling down on the line at the leech pulley to bring the boom up to the leech reefing point. The pulling the boom up to the leech reefing point is not really required as the single line reef will do it but such assistance does create a nicer tighter sail shape especially if windy. Tension the main halyard again. Done. Issue is that this is the first reefing point. I have a second I am still trying to figure how to do it in a similar manner without too much gear duplication but at that point in a Castle I probably should not be out there.
Jim
Castle 650 #96. Mystic.
Tow hack: Ford Territory TX SZ MkII Auto AWD

tipsy2
CompetentCrew
Posts: 96
Joined: Jan 19th, '16, 15:14

Re: Single line reefing

Post by tipsy2 » Jul 6th, '17, 08:02

I dont think that reefing whilst running is doable.

sailboatmike
Admiral
Posts: 5003
Joined: Apr 2nd, '13, 08:34
Location: Cranbourne Victoria
Contact:

Re: Single line reefing

Post by sailboatmike » Jul 6th, '17, 09:32

I dont think single line reefing is going to work while still on the wind, its just a way to make reefing quicker, easier and doable without leaving the cockpit or while short handed especially good for those of us without side decks
Cheers Mike
Macgregor 26X SeaYaLater
Hastings Yacht Club
Warneet Motor Yacht Club
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClULxh ... a5w/videos

Osprey
CompetentCrew
Posts: 56
Joined: Sep 9th, '16, 22:13

Re: Single line reefing

Post by Osprey » Jul 6th, '17, 11:41

Thanks guys, great feedback, I have gotten used to being able to reef fairly easily on all points of sail, although downwind with the sail loaded up makes it slow work.. Drop the halyard a bit, tighten the leech reef pendant, then take the slack out of the luff. And repeat until the reef is in.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2010/11/19 ... -sailboat/

I can see single line reefing would force me to change my habits. At least the NIS has a mizzen to hold her head up during reefing.

Cheers

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Frank Peters
Able Skipper
Posts: 1679
Joined: Apr 19th, '09, 22:34
Location: Tanjil East - Moe

Re: Single line reefing

Post by Frank Peters » Jul 7th, '17, 18:24

Hi All,

I have a single line reefing on my Noelex and I am very happy with it.

I never use it, not in last 10 years.

I mainly sail on Gippsland Lakes these days and I have no need for reefing at all.

If it is too windy I motor or stay put, or have jib only or main only. I have permanently installed genoa and roller reef to allow me to get the right size.

I don’t race, I only cruise.

Regards Frank

User avatar
zebedee
Admiral
Posts: 9964
Joined: May 9th, '07, 02:05
Location: Bayside Melbourne

Re: Single line reefing

Post by zebedee » Jul 7th, '17, 18:53

I've given up using the first reef on my Castle; if reefing is justified, then I go straight to the second reef, which saves having to reef in heavier conditions. Of course if I was racing with a crew of 3 or 4, the first reef might be just the thing sometimes.
My halyard, luff downhaul and second reef line lead back to a triple jammer on the cabin roof (no pop top) so everything I need is in one readily accessible place with the halyard winch available for all three lines.
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

pdandy
Yachtmaster
Posts: 4397
Joined: Jan 20th, '08, 21:09
Location: maffra vic

Re: Single line reefing

Post by pdandy » Jul 7th, '17, 22:34

tipsy2 wrote:I dont think that reefing whilst running is doable.
It's hard work, and not good for the sail, but when you have swept back shrouds like a noelex it's sometimes the only option - depower BEFORE turning upwind , and even then pray as you start turning!!!

Ps what's the smallest line we can get away with on our boats reefing system? I've got 6 mm spectra but have been wondering if 4 mm might still be strong enough whilst reducing weight / turbulance up at the second reef ?
noelex 25 green velvet

tipsy2
CompetentCrew
Posts: 96
Joined: Jan 19th, '16, 15:14

Re: Single line reefing

Post by tipsy2 » Jul 8th, '17, 07:45

I would think so, loads aren't that great and it is doubled at the load points but getting a cleat to hold it might be fun. You go extreme and use 3mm dynex and splice a 6mm spectra tail to it.

pdandy
Yachtmaster
Posts: 4397
Joined: Jan 20th, '08, 21:09
Location: maffra vic

Re: Single line reefing

Post by pdandy » Jul 8th, '17, 10:44

tipsy2 wrote:I would think so, loads aren't that great and it is doubled at the load points but getting a cleat to hold it might be fun. You go extreme and use 3mm dynex and splice a 6mm spectra tail to it.
I've got spinlock pxr (3-5 mm) holding my topping lift / spinnaker up / down lines with some 4 mm spectra I got for a song a few years back - they hold really well, but aren't as easy to release under load as a traditional clutch. I've been procrastinating about changing a few of my clutches since the great bcf ebay fraud event left me with some better hardware.....so
I might try temporarily using one of the kite pole pxr clutches for one of my reefing lines using some spare 4 mm spectra before I proceed ( that'll give me at least another year to procrastinate........)
noelex 25 green velvet

User avatar
impulse
Able Skipper
Posts: 1172
Joined: Oct 17th, '06, 00:27
Location: sydney

Re: Single line reefing

Post by impulse » Jul 8th, '17, 10:55

Ok, I'm just a simple rope cutter, but what is your problem with reefing upwind. I fail to see why the sweptback spreaders will have anything to do with it, admittedly you only need to reef a noelex in 50 knots.
Cheers Robin.

Robin & Terry.
RL28 - QE3.

tipsy2
CompetentCrew
Posts: 96
Joined: Jan 19th, '16, 15:14

Re: Single line reefing

Post by tipsy2 » Jul 8th, '17, 12:01

If the clutch doesn't like the 4mm. You could sew a cover on it at the grab point and increase the diameter and save a bit of wear on your rope at the same time.

pdandy
Yachtmaster
Posts: 4397
Joined: Jan 20th, '08, 21:09
Location: maffra vic

Re: Single line reefing

Post by pdandy » Jul 8th, '17, 20:10

impulse wrote:Ok, I'm just a simple rope cutter, but what is your problem with reefing upwind. I fail to see why the sweptback spreaders will have anything to do with it, admittedly you only need to reef a noelex in 50 knots.
Umm...I'm just a simple victorian but I always thought running is DOWNWIND....so as you transition from running to reaching with a full main up against the shrouds the nx gets a bit interesting in anything over 40. You remember interesting? That's where you guys in the cockpit start laughing at us guys hanging from the shrouds - just before the knife comes out.
noelex 25 green velvet

User avatar
impulse
Able Skipper
Posts: 1172
Joined: Oct 17th, '06, 00:27
Location: sydney

Re: Single line reefing

Post by impulse » Jul 8th, '17, 20:27

It's called organisation mate, you're getting soft.
I reef when going upwind, it's the only way, main flogging going slow & just get it done.
On Cloud Walking it was physically impossible to shake a reef out downwind, never even tried to put one in. To transition from running to reaching you would need to luff up whilst you reef.
Cheers Robin.

Robin & Terry.
RL28 - QE3.

Osprey
CompetentCrew
Posts: 56
Joined: Sep 9th, '16, 22:13

Re: Single line reefing

Post by Osprey » Jul 8th, '17, 21:20

Its very interesting seeing all the different approaches to reefing, and sailing in general, none right or wrong, just different. So thanks for the input and feedback.

But for me I find it frustrating having to luff up if my destination is to leeward, or there is a big sea running. In these cases its much more pleasant to run off square and reef the main slowly while running downwind. No flogging sail, and no spray flying over the boat. So hopefully whatever system I put in will enable reefing downwind.

At the moment I am leaning back to a twin line reefing system. More spaghetti, but I know it will work exactly the way I want it to. And it sounds like a single line system might not. I can always try a single line system later, but having the deck hardware set up for a twin line system gives me options.

pdandy
Yachtmaster
Posts: 4397
Joined: Jan 20th, '08, 21:09
Location: maffra vic

Re: Single line reefing

Post by pdandy » Jul 8th, '17, 22:41

impulse wrote:It's called organisation mate, you're getting soft.
I reef when going upwind, it's the only way, main flogging going slow & just get it done.
On Cloud Walking it was physically impossible to shake a reef out downwind, never even tried to put one in. To transition from running to reaching you would need to luff up whilst you reef.
Yeah, we know ypu like going slow and flogging sails - I'm just saying that's not always an option. :wink:
noelex 25 green velvet

User avatar
byrdsworth
Able Skipper
Posts: 688
Joined: Mar 14th, '10, 18:19
Location: Brisbane

Re: Single line reefing

Post by byrdsworth » Jul 9th, '17, 10:24

What about heaving to ??
probably the safest way to reef ... especially single handed ..

having said that I've never reefed my main on either of my careels ... so far

Cheers
Byrds
C18 #457 SkyeMist

pdandy
Yachtmaster
Posts: 4397
Joined: Jan 20th, '08, 21:09
Location: maffra vic

Re: Single line reefing

Post by pdandy » Jul 9th, '17, 11:28

byrdsworth wrote:What about heaving to ??
probably the safest way to reef ... especially single handed ..

having said that I've never reefed my main on either of my careels ... so far

Cheers
Byrds
Reefing when you have the luxury of pointing up ( in any way) is relatively easy - this diversion started because it's not always easy / suitable to turn around to reef. You'll notice on the careel that going from a run to reach with full main up in anything over 30 knts gets interesting- yes, you CAN reef a careel main when on a run if you have slab reefing - trouble is a big gust can overpower the rudder and she will spin around .....that was fun :shock: I really don't miss having all the lines up at the mast like my careel had.....
noelex 25 green velvet

Osprey
CompetentCrew
Posts: 56
Joined: Sep 9th, '16, 22:13

Re: Single line reefing

Post by Osprey » Jul 9th, '17, 14:41

Pdandy, sounds like you reef a similar way to me, what sort of system do you have that enables you to reef downwind?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Osprey
CompetentCrew
Posts: 56
Joined: Sep 9th, '16, 22:13

Re: Single line reefing

Post by Osprey » Jul 9th, '17, 14:52

byrdsworth wrote:What about heaving to ??
probably the safest way to reef ... especially single handed ..

having said that I've never reefed my main on either of my careels ... so far

Cheers
Byrds
One issue I have encountered heaving too on a sloop is that as soon as you ease the main to spill the wind and reef it the bow blows off and the main fills again. You end up with the wind on your beam struggling to unload the main. It can work, and if I am singlehanded and haven't hooked up the windvane I will sometimes partly back or oversheet the headsail and lash the helm before reefing. This seems to work better, at least on the keelers I have owned.

The ketch rigged NIS should in theory be much better, heaving too with the mizzen sheeted flat to heave too. Other ketches I have sailed work well like this. I am looking forward to experimenting with her.

Post Reply

Return to “Performance & Modifications”